"The violation of rights is not institutionalized in the police"

The vice president and chancellor of Colombia, Marta Lucía Ramírez (Bogotá, 66 years old), arrived this Tuesday for this interview, at the residence of the Colombian ambassador in Madrid, with the time measured.

"We will have 10 minutes," his team announced.

The chancellor had decided hours before to shorten her European tour by one day because, as she announced on Twitter, she had just become a grandmother.

The plane to Bogotá left in a few hours.

Colombia has been stuck in a social outbreak since last April 28.

In these seven weeks there have been thousands of demonstrations throughout the country, blockades that have prevented the supply of entire cities and violent clashes between police and protesters.

About 50 people have lost their lives.

The international community has criticized the police excesses and the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) visited the country last week to assess whether there were abuses and human rights violations in the containment of the protests.

A visit that the government of Iván Duque rejected at first as unnecessary and that, later, with the mediation of Ramírez herself, accepted with conditions.

More information

• Human Rights Watch denounces "very serious abuses" by the police against protesters in Colombia

The chancellor is visibly upset because the brief interview she gives EL PAÍS is about the conflict.

He criticizes that people can stay with the idea that "the only thing worth mentioning about Colombia is a situation that fortunately is already being overcome."

An hour after the meeting, the Unemployment Committee (organizer of the protests) announced the temporary interruption of the mobilizations.

Before going to the airport, Ramírez asks: "Let's look at the full picture, despite the difficulties we continue to have a democracy, which is what is lacking in much of Latin America."

The one that follows was the previous dialogue.

Question.

Around twenty deaths at the hands of the police have been documented in the framework of the protests.

Does the Government condemn episodes of police brutality?

Answer.

The Government will always condemn any case of brutality against the life of any person, no matter where it comes from.

But it is very important not to make the mistake of using unverified figures.

It is true that there have been 21 deaths during the protests, but it is not true that there are 21 police-related deaths.

From the investigations being carried out by the Prosecutor's Office, so far the only thing proven is that there are four cases in which there are linked police officers.

Q.

It is Human Rights Watch that has documented these deaths.

A.

There can be no organization that documents with more certainty than the authorities.

Q.

What do you think of the images of civilians shooting at protesters under the cover, in some cases, of the police?

R.

If there are civilians who have killed someone, who with shots in the air have caused the death of another person, they are absolutely criminal matters.

It is also very serious that in these protests there are about 40,000 weapons that have been seized by the police.

Unfortunately the protests, mostly of young and peaceful people, have been used by violent and criminal minorities to carry out acts of vandalism.

We have to know who has been behind these acts.

Q.

Didn't the objections to initially receive the IACHR visit weaken the Executive's position?

R.

No, again half information. What was done in Washington was to make a visit to the IACHR to tell them that we accepted their visit to Colombia, but that it was important that they do so after having received the information they requested from the Prosecutor's Office, the Attorney General's Office, and the Ombudsman's Office. town. What the Government of Colombia offered [to the IACHR] is to comply with that sequence. Before they went to Colombia, there was talk of 400 something missing, that number never existed. With the crossing of the information, that list passed to around 70 people. So when they arrived in Colombia they did so with a situation much more adjusted to the reality that was being told, among others, by organizations that believe they have information and are transmitting it with great lightness.

P.

What has been questioned is that human rights were respected during the protests.

R.

No one can doubt that when there are four police officers who are under investigation.

If there are four cases of police officers who have violated human rights, that is very serious, but it is a different thing to say that the Colombian police is an institution that uses the violation of human rights as a practice because that does not exist institutionally .

P.

These days you have said that the origin of the protests is the dissatisfaction of young people.

What solutions do you propose?

R.

The solutions that all the democratic governments of the world have to apply.

The first thing is to listen to people and understand what the causes are.

P.

But the dialogue with the organizers of the protests is broken.

R.

Let me finish. The first thing to do is listen to what is causing the dissatisfaction. Second, if it is in the hands of the Government, take corrective measures. Our Government has taken corrective measures, for example, giving free education at the university to levels 1, 2 and 3. Dialogue must be held in the corresponding instances. There are people who have proclaimed the strike table, which what they did was take advantage of the moment in the protest to say that they were the ones who negotiated on behalf of society. Many young people have come out to say 'I don't feel represented' [by them]. That Table is pretending such absurd things as that the Government can give a minimum monthly salary to 30 million Colombians indefinitely without working, that is not possible.The government is trying to strengthen the economy to make room for jobs to be created. The real solution to people's social problems is at work.

Q.

Do you no longer consider the Unemployment Board a valid interlocutor?

A.

They themselves have decided to get up [to get up] from the table, one does not have an interlocutor when they decide to get up from the table.

They also promoted the destruction of a good part of the resources that families need most, the senseless and illogical economic destruction.

They themselves lost legitimacy vis-à-vis the people they claimed to be representing.

They have made blockades that have done immense damage to the country.

These people promoted ambulances to be stopped on the roads and two babies died.

They asked that the Catholic Church and the United Nations be accompanying that table, and neither they nor the Government can do anything if they decide to get up from the table.

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