Cédric Lewandowski: "There will be no victory in the fight against climate change without nuclear power"

Cédric Lewandowski is executive director of the EDF group, in charge of the nuclear and thermal park department.

He is the author of the book

Le Nucléaire

(Que sais-je ?, 2021).

FIGAROVOX.

- Why write a book on nuclear power at a time when the fashion is for wind turbines and renewable energies.

Isn't nuclear a technology and an energy of the past?

Surely not !

Nuclear power is the second largest source of clean energy in the world.

It represents around 10% of global electricity production and has experienced a steady increase, around 15%, since 2012. It is also the leading technology for electricity production within the European Union with a share of 27%.

In 2019, fifty-four new reactors were under construction around the world and five new projects were initiated.

In 2020, the United Arab Emirates connected their first nuclear power plant (Barakah) to the grid;

Poland and Egypt, like more than twenty other countries in the world, are studying the possibility of embarking on the path of civilian nuclear power.

For an “

energy of the past

”, nuclear power has a bright future!

Would you go so far as to say that it is green energy?

The numbers are there to prove it.

According to IPCC studies, CO2 emissions to produce one kWh of nuclear electricity are around 12g, a level comparable to electricity from wind power, two and a half times lower than that of solar photovoltaic electricity. , 40 times less than for the energy produced by gas-fired power stations and 70 times less compared to coal-fired power stations.

Reduced to the kWh produced, the footprint of the installations is particularly modest.

Cedric Lewandowski

On the question of the natural resource footprint of technologies, recent reports from the World Bank and the International Energy Agency (IEA) also reveal the good performance of nuclear power, which uses little copper, aluminum and steel. or glass, even more economical in silver, tin, molybdenum, nickel or rare earths.

In addition, reduced to the kWh produced, the footprint of the installations is particularly modest.

All this confirms the environmental advantages of nuclear power.

As Chernobyl and to a lesser extent Fukushima have shown, is not the human and ecological risk however much greater?

It should be noted first of all that these two major accidents are of a very different nature. The Chernobyl accident is mainly due to human and organizational failures, while at the origin of the Fukushima accident, there is an extraordinary natural disaster: an earthquake with a magnitude of 9 on the Richter scale followed by a tsunami that devastated nearly six hundred kilometers of the northwest coast of Japan, sometimes penetrating up to ten kilometers inland. The nuclear power station was absolutely not endangered by the earthquake, to which it resisted perfectly. On the other hand, the seven waves of fifteen meters high of the tsunami, by crashing with an incredible violence on the power station, destroyed the systems ofcooling water and electricity supply and it is for this reason that the Fukushima power station found itself in great difficulty.

Lessons were learned from the analysis of the experience feedback from these two accidents. After Chernobyl, many States reviewed the very organization of the nuclear sector with much stronger safety authorities than they were before. In France, after the Fukushima accident, the Nuclear Safety Authority (ASN) requested improvements in order to further increase the robustness of nuclear power plants in the face of extreme situations. EDF has thus set up an additional emergency water and electricity supply system, and has also created a rapid nuclear action force, the FARN, capable of intervening in less than 24 hours on a site in difficulty. major.

In general, in the nuclear field, safety is a priority and permanent concern.

The slightest events, incidents or anomalies are systematically analyzed, making it possible to continuously improve the safety of the installations: it can lead to modifications to the installations, procedures or organization.

More than 90% of the waste from the nuclear power industry is very weakly radioactive or has a short lifespan.

Cedric Lewandowski

What about waste management?

All industries produce waste. Our responsibility is obviously to keep them as little as possible and to treat them as best as possible. In the case of nuclear waste, 60% comes from electricity production and 40% from the medical sector, industry, etc. More than 90% of the waste from the nuclear power industry is very weakly radioactive or has a short lifespan. They mainly result from the operation and dismantling of facilities. They are packaged in an airtight manner and stored in three surface centers, managed by the National Agency for the Management of Radioactive Waste (ANDRA). Our objective is to reduce the volume of waste produced as much as possible: we have thus set up sorting and compaction systems in the power plants, and we haveindustrial units for the treatment of this waste by means of smelting and incineration processes.

High-level waste, that which constitutes the main questioning of our fellow citizens and on which we project a lot of fantasies, certainly corresponds to 95% of the level of radioactivity, but only to 0.2% of the total volume. Since the start of the civilian nuclear fleet 50 years ago, they represent a volume of 3,740m3, the equivalent of an Olympic swimming pool. Currently, this waste is conditioned in containers before its transfer to Cigéo, the French deep disposal center project piloted by ANDRA, planned to receive it by 2035. Finally, it should be noted that 96% of spent fuel is recyclable and can be used in the manufacture of new fuels, which makes it possible to divide by 4 to 5 the volume of the most radioactive waste and to reduce today by 10% theuse of natural resources, from 20 to 25% by 2030.

Debating this subject is therefore very demanding, it requires going beyond the simple binary opposition, "I am for" or "I am against"

Cedric Lewandowski

How do you explain that the nuclear debate arouses so much passion?

For a large audience, nuclear power is inseparable from the image of the Hiroshima bomb. This image, reinforced by the fear of accidents, contributes to making any debate on nuclear energy complex, and quickly passionate, even dogmatic. In truth, nuclear power is a complex subject, far removed from the daily life of the majority of our fellow citizens, with many technical, economic and environmental dimensions. Debating this subject is therefore very demanding, it requires going beyond the simple binary opposition, "I am for" or "I am against", to abandon the defense of postures of principle, to distinguish facts from opinions, to favor the factual. to the sensational. It should also be noted that recent polls show growing French support for nuclear energy;these are cyclical trends, which are often found after low points observed after Chernobyl and Fukushima. It is therefore up to us to provide substantiated information to those who are wondering…. and that's the whole point of this

What do I know

 !

Are you in favor of dismantling at least part of the facilities like in Fessenheim?

Since the beginning of the civil nuclear adventure, more than 180 nuclear reactors have been closed around the world.

The closure of a plant can occur for three reasons: a technical imperative, an economic reality (when the plant is no longer profitable, there have been several cases in the United States) or a political decision, the choice of Angela Merkel to get out of nuclear power is the most radical example of this, which today leads Germany to be in great difficulty in terms of energy since it must compensate nuclear power with coal and gas, that is - that is to say carbonaceous means.

The final shutdown of Fessenheim operations on June 30, 2020 was a very special moment since it was the pioneer of the power plants of the major French nuclear power program which made EDF the world's leading nuclear operator. Its closure was not the result of technical or economic issues, but of a political decision taken by the government. The State decided, with the Energy-Climate Law of 2019, to reduce the share of nuclear power in our country's energy mix to 50% by 2035, against 70% currently. Therefore, our duty is now to demonstrate our ability to dismantle this industrial tool in the best conditions of safety and security.

There will be no victory in the fight against climate change without nuclear power.

But, there will be no victory either without a sharp increase in renewable energies.

Cedric Lewandowski

Are alternative energies likely in the long term to replace nuclear power?

Dr Fatih Birol, Executive Director of the IEA, said in 2019 that in the face of the immensity of the challenge of climate change, we could not afford to exclude “low carbon” technologies and, indeed, to be there. -you of the commitments of the Paris Agreement, it is absolutely necessary to add the carbon-free resources and not to substitute them for each other. There will be no victory in the fight against climate change without nuclear power. But, there will be no victory either without a sharp increase in renewable energies. As France decided within the framework of the PPE, many countries are converging on an energy solution combining renewable and nuclear energies. Hydraulic, solar, wind, carbon-free hydrogen,nuclear are all technologies that are part of the energy solution to be implemented and we must step up our efforts in all these areas so as not to reach + 3 ° C in 2050. I believe in scientific progress, which has never stopped us to surprise, to amaze us. It is therefore entirely possible that alternative energies will replace nuclear power in the long term… or that new nuclear technologies will be required.

Its mastery is therefore essential for the great world powers which have reaffirmed their commitment in the nuclear field as well as for the countries which wish to commission a nuclear power plant for the first time.

Cedric Lewandowski

At a time when we deplore our deindustrialisation and our strategic dependence, is nuclear power also an essential tool of sovereignty?

The nuclear industry is not an industry like the others: it is an industry of sovereignty, in its civil and military applications, considered as a strategic sector by a growing number of countries. The high technological content of civil nuclear power is a driving force for all the industrial, research and education systems of the countries which develop it. Its mastery is therefore essential for the great world powers which have reaffirmed their commitment in the nuclear field as well as for the countries which wish to commission a nuclear power plant for the first time. For many of these states, the objective is to reduce their CO2 emissions but also their energy dependence or to guarantee water resources by desalinating seawater.

Today, “nuclear diplomacy” is more active than ever, against a backdrop of technological and economic warfare between Russia, the United States and China. These three powers are resolutely committed to the development of new technologies for civilian nuclear power, support their national industry and have strong international ambitions. The decrease in the number of reactors in operation in Western Europe is helping to weaken our ability to influence the global governance of this sector.

Nuclear power is today one of the most important industrial sectors in our country: it represents more than 220,000 employees and 3,000 companies for an annual turnover of € 47.5 billion.

The major national industrial project to extend the operating life of existing power plants that we call the Grand Carénage is more than 95% carried out by companies located in France with professionals, very often at a high level of technical expertise, including the he job, I would like to point out, cannot be relocated.

Nuclear power has been a field of excellence for France from its inception.

Since the discovery of uranium rays in 1896, our scientists and industrialists have distinguished themselves in the development of this energy.

Cedric Lewandowski

Let us not forget either that for more than 30 years, electricity exports have made a positive contribution to the balance of payments of our country and that nuclear power generation has made it possible to ensure a supply of electricity to the industrialists present in our territory. a price, exclusive of taxes, competitive. More generally, having a dynamic and active civilian nuclear industry in France, supported by a state industrial vision, allowing national control of low-carbon electricity production technology, is essential for the competitiveness of our companies and our influence. international. Clearly, the principles that founded the creation of civilian nuclear power in France, energetic independence and security of supply are still fully relevant.

In recent years have we lost the lead we had in the field?

Nuclear power has been a field of excellence for France from its inception. Since the discovery of uranium rays in 1896, our scientists and industrialists have distinguished themselves in the development of this energy. I am of course thinking of Henri Becquerel, Pierre and Marie Curie, Nobel Prize in Physics in 1903, Irène and Frédéric Joliot-Curie, Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1935. On the eve of the Second World War, France was at the forefront of worldwide research in this field, but at the Liberation, everything had to be started again. The creation of the Atomic Energy Commission and the reconstitution of the research teams enabled France to quickly regain its place: the first divergence of ZOE, the first French atomic battery, took place on December 15, 1948, the French nuclear program was launched on March 6, 1974.

Such a success has been possible thanks to the coordinated commitment of researchers, scientists and engineers, the launch of a voluntary plan by the State and the investment of large industrial groups, but also the dynamism of a number of SMEs and companies. ETI.

EDF is today the world's leading operator and in France we have a nuclear sector of recognized excellence, which allows us to be present in all segments of the nuclear industry, a position shared only with the States -United, Russia and very soon China. I believe in the role of History to build the future: tomorrow as yesterday, the resolute and coordinated commitment of researchers, industrial players and the State is essential and, I hope, will convince new talented generations. to join us to guarantee the sustainability of this great national success that is French nuclear power.