Health Minister Jens Spahn is currently recovering on vacation at Tegernsee.
In the interview he talks about his plans for the unvaccinated and the federal election.
Tegernsee - trips abroad are a pandemic driver.
Anyone who has pointed this out as often as the Federal Minister of Health naturally spends his vacation in Germany.
As in the previous year, Jens Spahn * (CDU) is recovering with his husband at Tegernsee.
But is that vacation?
In the morning there is time for a quick mountain tour - with bodyguards in tow.
During the day there are video conferences, in the evening Spahn meets with political colleagues who - like FDP leader Christian Lindner - are also in the area.
In between there is still time for an interview with our newspaper - only slightly disturbed by a heavy downpour.
Spahn, under the protection of a parasol on the east bank of the Tegernsee, does not allow himself to be interrupted.
Mr. Spahn, you are currently spending a few days at Tegernsee.
As a health minister, can you even enjoy holidays during the pandemic?
Yes, the daily routine is a little different.
At least that's what it feels like to be on vacation.
We also go hiking, the day before yesterday we were on the Riederstein.
That clears your mind.
Even if I continue to work and take part in video conferences, I am recovering well here.
How much does the slowly increasing vaccination rate spoil your enjoyment of the mountain panorama?
First of all, we as the federal government have already managed to offer all citizens a vaccination offer - much earlier than was promised.
If you want to get vaccinated today, you can do it right away.
73 percent of adults have now been vaccinated at least once.
That's good - but it's not enough.
What do you say to citizens who have not yet wanted to be vaccinated?
It's not just about protecting yourself, but also protecting us as a society.
Vaccination is a patriotic act. I do not believe in compulsory vaccination against Covid-19 *.
But there is a requirement to be vaccinated - that already exists.
Yes, vaccination is a personal choice.
But it is also one that affects us all.
Each individual has a say in how difficult autumn and winter will be for all of us.
In view of this, how annoyed you are about the statements made by Bavaria's Minister of Economic Affairs, Hubert Aiwanger, critical of vaccinations?
It is one thing not to get vaccinated for personal reasons.
But it is not okay to try to make such political capital out of it against any scientific knowledge.
Spahn: "If everyone has had the chance to vaccinate several times, the tests cannot remain free of charge"
When do tests for unvaccinated people have to be paid for?
We still need the tests.
There are many who generally want to be vaccinated, but for whom the right opportunity has not yet arisen.
What I think is good: In the factories, in football stadiums, in churches there are now campaigns everywhere where you can get vaccinated on the side.
But if everyone has had multiple chances to vaccinate, then the tests can no longer be free.
It's a question of fairness.
From mid-October, unvaccinated adults who could have been vaccinated should have to pay for a rapid antigen test before going to a restaurant.
Can we achieve herd immunity by autumn?
If enough people get vaccinated, there will be at least a herd effect.
This means that there is a high level of basic immunity and the virus cannot simply rush through.
It is crucial that the healthcare system is not overloaded.
The RKI models show that a vaccination rate of over 75 percent makes a very big difference for the number of infections and possible intensive care patients.
Everyone can influence whether we achieve this with their personal vaccination decision.
If we don't reach this level, is there a risk of the next lockdown?
No.
We need two basic principles for autumn and winter: 3G applies to meetings in closed rooms - that is, you have to be vaccinated, recovered or tested.
Otherwise we continue to wear a mask and adhere to the hygiene and distance rules.
If further restrictions should be necessary in some regions - for example because certain limit values are exceeded - then vaccinated and convalescent people are exempt.
In Bavaria, Markus Söder wants to reopen clubs and discos only for those who have been vaccinated and those who have recovered in autumn.
That would be 2G instead of 3G ...
For essential things such as public transport or visiting the town hall or hospital, it must be possible to have access with just a mask or test.
But for discos, stadiums or theaters, i.e. areas that do not belong to the basic service, I can also imagine access only for vaccinated or convalescent people.
Or limited access - for example, that 30,000 people who have been vaccinated and 2,000 people who have been tested are allowed to attend a football match in the Bayern stadium.
Jens Spahn: "A pandemic is not a gentle cycle for a health minister"
As the vaccination rate increases, you want to exchange the incidence as a decisive factor for corona measures.
What is the magic formula for the new key figure?
Incidence was never the only indicator.
We have always looked at a set of values.
In addition to the incidence, this includes the R value, which shows how quickly the virus is spreading.
But this also includes the absolute number of infections.
In view of the vaccination quota achieved, the number of hospitalizations must also play a significantly larger role in the future.
Other countries allow higher incidences and trust that young people will naturally immunize themselves by going through the disease.
A wrong way?
At least it's daring.
Because there can also be long-term consequences after an infection.
Long Covid is still little researched.
So this path is an experiment that exposes a great many people to an incalculable risk.
We look carefully at these countries and of course we wish that it all ends well.
Then Germany will do it?
Then we could at least deal more safely with higher values.
All countries are learning from each other in the pandemic, that's clear.
The past year has also been a rollercoaster ride for you personally.
In the winter you were still the logical candidate for CDU chancellor for some.
Then in the new year there was criticism.
Have you actually made so many mistakes, or do you see yourself as Germany's Corona scapegoat?
A pandemic is not a gentle cycle for a health minister.
In the beginning, the government had a pandemic bonus - not only in Germany.
But when it got very hard for many people in the second and third waves, it became more of a penalty.
Nevertheless, Germany got through this pandemic comparatively well, if you look at the deaths, the number of infections or the rapid recovery of the economy.
But of course we also made mistakes - myself too. We would have had to buy masks earlier, as an EU we would have needed entry restrictions earlier, and yes, I have announced quick test options for everyone on March 1st, which then came a week later.
Have you been slowed down by the Chancellery, who insisted on EU-wide action, when it comes to obtaining vaccines?
It was and is in our national interest that vaccination should take place all over Europe at the same time.
We have none of it when Germany is through, but none of our trading partners have yet.
The pandemic will not end until it is over worldwide.
But yes: the vaccine procurement at the European level could have been faster in the beginning.
Let's take a look at the CDU *: You swore your loyalty to Armin Laschet * early on in the Chancellor's race.
Think
Spahn: "That we win the election, Markus Söder and the CSU make a decisive contribution"
Do you now sometimes that you'd better have waited longer?
No.
When he and I decided to compete in tandem, the union was 20 to 25 percent.
When we climbed to over 40 percent in surveys at the beginning of the pandemic, it was always clear that it could go down again.
It is crucial for the Union that we stand together.
We can only get through difficult fairways when we are closed.
Laschet made some mistakes recently.
How annoying do you find that Söder from Munich also regularly steps in?
It is part of the CSU's DNA to drive things forward and set topics.
So you have to drive the CDU?
No.
But the CDU combines stability, calm and progress.
After this pandemic, we are facing a decade of upheaval.
The mission of the CDU is to give security and orientation to this change.
And that's exactly what Armin Laschet stands for.
That is why he is also the right candidate for Chancellor.
Markus Söder * and the CSU make a decisive contribution to the fact that we win the election together.
Incidentally, I am convinced that the best election campaign is good governance.
The Union doesn't just talk, it does.
With the election, the era of Angela Merkel * will also end.
You were never her favorite.
Did you still learn something from the Chancellor?
I learned a lot from her and continue to do so today.
That you have to stay calm in difficult phases, for example.
I am also impressed by their curiosity.
While others only broadcast after a few years in office, the Chancellor is still listening and asking questions after 16 years.
Summarized by Sebastian Horsch - * Merkur.de is an offer from IPPEN.MEDIA.