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Gerhart Baum: Minister of the Interior in Helmut Schmidt's social-liberal cabinet
Photo: Abdulhamid Hosbas / Anadolu Agency / Getty Images
SPIEGEL:
Mr. Baum, you have been a constant critic of your own party leadership in recent years.
Do you agree the explorations with the SPD and the Greens to be milder?
Baum:
Well, the criticism was temporarily justified after 2017.
The prospect of a traffic light alliance is now a hopeful expectation for me.
The FDP and the Greens must form the center for reforms in this coalition.
The prerequisite for this, however, is that all partners do not exhaust themselves in a small and small, but rather define large, central issues that advance the country.
The different political approaches, for example in economic, social, tax and climate protection policy must be bridged - in the past, bridges also had to be built.
I recommend Willy Brandt's legendary speech at the beginning of the social-liberal coalition in 1969. Today too, as Brandt said, more democracy must be dared.
SPIEGEL:
There is no real affection for traffic lights in the FDP.
Baum:
No, for many in the FDP, the traffic light is a community of convenience, but it is based on certain basic convictions. In one respect it is about preserving our world for future generations, that is, about safeguarding freedom in the future. The FDP and the Greens did well among the young voters. This vote is an obligation for both parties towards the younger generation. Even if both parties have different approaches to climate protection, they all want the same thing - the protection of the natural foundations of life. Finally!
SPIEGEL: In
1969 the SPD and FDP formed a coalition that had undertaken major reforms in domestic and foreign policy.
You are 88 today, and you played an active role in shaping this time as an FDP politician in various offices.
Are there parallels to today?
Tree:
Yes.
The situation today is different, but it is similar to that of 1969. There is an urgent need for domestic political action, the country must be modernized.
At that time we implemented a reform policy in all fields of politics - from equal rights for women to a new policy for education and science.
SPIEGEL:
What does that mean for the traffic light?
Baum:
Today, major transformations, triggered by climate change, are necessary, including urban and residential construction. We have to decide how we want to and can live in the future. There is the digital revolution with its many opportunities. It must be designed and its freedom-destroying effect tamed. There is also an urgent need for action in foreign policy - different from that in 1969, when we implemented the new policy on Germany and the East. Today we live in a time of upheaval. Worldwide processes are evading democratic control, authoritarian regimes, like China, are gaining ground. In this world Europe has to assert itself - politically, economically and with a military readiness for defense. That too will not be undisputed in the negotiations.
SPIEGEL:
Is there a social-liberal renaissance in a traffic light?
Tree:
Renaissance, I wouldn't go that far. But there is also a touch of Freiburg over the project. At a traffic light there is a chance to revive old ideas, to get closer to social-liberal traditions. In October 50 years ago we in the FDP established a social liberalism with the »Freiburg Program«. When in doubt for freedom, the motto was, but also freedom in social responsibility. As the first party, we made environmental problems a core issue, and we added concepts for a fairer distribution of wealth. Unfortunately, this line of tradition has been marginalized in the FDP since the end of the coalition with the SPD. The Freiburg theses of the FDP, that still means the unconditional commitment to the leitmotif of freedom. It's the program of a freedom partywhich does not rely solely on formal freedoms, but on the socially fulfilled freedom of the individual. That is what distinguishes us today from the SPD and the Greens. Freedom can only be restricted if there is no other way.
SPIEGEL:
Your relationship with FDP leader Christian Lindner has always been strained.
Do you still have contact?
Baum:
A few weeks ago, before the election, I met Lindner on a plane.
I told him that his strategy was right to keep the coalition options open this time and consistently focus on freedom.
He persevered and was successful in the end.
SPIEGEL:
Will Lindner have to change the political style he formed during opposition times in a possible coalition?
Baum:
He already does.
Lindner has become much more serious.
According to surveys, many people now trust him to hold a high position in the state, this attitude reflects that, from the point of view of many people, he has changed.
SPIEGEL:
Long before the election, Lindner expressed his wish to become Federal Minister of Finance.
A smart move?
Baum:
In these tiring discussions about candidates for chancellor, he wanted to underpin his political goals with personnel.
That’s consistent.
The Greens are calling for a comprehensive climate-environment-energy department, which is also consistent.
But nothing has been decided yet.
A German finance minister is also a minister who not only represents German interests, but also has to keep an eye on all of Europe.
Europe wants "more Germany".
That goes in the direction of a balance of interests with the south, about solidarity.
We need more Europe.
SPIEGEL:
In the black-yellow coalition from 2009 to 2013, the euro crisis and the handling of the aid money for Greece led to a rift in the FDP.
Do you fear such a split in the FDP again in the event of a crisis in the eurozone?
Baum:
History doesn't repeat itself.
But my party should have a clear compass in European and European politics and rethink positions that are too Eurosceptic.
Without Europe we have no future.
SPIEGEL:
When it comes to climate protection, the FDP relies on CO₂ certificate trading, the Greens want more drastic measures.
How do you get together?
Baum:
We agree on the goal.
Now the best way will have to be found.
The transformation cannot be achieved without increasing productivity in the economy; the Greens have a problem in view of rising energy prices.
You scared a lot of people with the way you advocated climate policy.
People want renewal, but also stability.
Actually, the Greens should have done much better with their very own topic, which is a mega-topic today.
SPIEGEL:
Do you still consider a Jamaican alliance to be a realistic option?
Baum:
No, Jamaica is no longer a serious option at the moment.
In the CDU itself, the voices calling for the need to first find yourself have become unmistakable after 16 years of government.
This will need time.
The whole party has lost, not just Laschet, whom parts of the Union have not dealt properly with.
A constant thorn in the flesh was and is the regional party CSU, which with its nationwide no more than five percent thinks of the Bavarian state elections than of the whole country.
This will continue to be an element of uncertainty in coalitions with the Union in the future.
That connects today with the person Söder, the CSU boss has also lost the election.
Now I wish that the negotiations at the traffic light will be successful.