Explorations: Lanz wants to squeeze Kühnert - instead he fuels explosive ministerial speculation

Kevin Kühnert comments on "Markus Lanz" on the SPD and the traffic light explorations.

The host bites his teeth on the SPD vice-president - almost at least.

Hamburg - SPD Vice Kevin Kühnert is a guest - and so Markus Lanz is hoping for details from the traffic light explorations on Thursday evening.

But Kühnert disappoints the moderator.

He is neither part of the exploratory team, nor does he know what is currently being discussed there in detail.

Only later in the show will he provide surprising insights.

“Of course I could call them and try to find out something,” says Kühnert with a shrug and explains: “Maybe I would find out something, but why should I?

Of course, I'm interested in what's going on there.

But there are explorations and not coalition negotiations and I know what our negotiating delegation, the six people we send there, are working for. "He doesn't have to reassure himself every day whether what has been agreed is still valid:" That is the basis of our business and they'll rock the child. "

"Markus Lanz" - these were his guests on October 14th:

• Kevin Kühnert

  (SPD) - politician

• Bijan Djir-Sarai

  (FDP) - politician

• Helene Bubrowski

  -

  FAZ

  journalist

• Tankred Stöbe

  - doctor

Lanz obviously has doubts about Kühnert's remarks and says with a frown: “Your influence on the party is now so enormous that I honestly can't believe it.

You know exactly what was being said. "Kühnert's grin reveals that Lanz flatters him with this allegation, his answer:" I'm sorry if you can't believe it.

But it doesn't change anything about my answer, which is truthful.

I am not involved in these discussions, nor do I have any leased line.

And that's actually how it is for all of us at the moment. ”He therefore also regrets the journalists who currently have to report on the big nonsense about the traffic light negotiations.

Journalist Helene Bubrowski calls it "Lunger journalism": "Lounging around for hours and the best thing you can find out is that there was patty soup for lunch." About the procedure: “What I don't understand is why you then do these press conferences where you stand for eight minutes and say: 'The conversations were good, but we don't even say what topic we were talking about.'

I think that also has a certain irresponsibility on the part of the politicians. "

“Markus Lanz” looks at traffic light probes: The probes hold tight

“Counter question”, Kevin Kühnert takes up the thread: “If these talks take place now and there weren't even such a press statement - don't think that there would be some of your colleagues who would say that's a restriction freedom of the press? ”“ But that's a pure show that's being pulled off, ”Bubrowski sticks to her opinion. Host Lanz would also like to have more insights into where the real differences lie in the talks: “Is it Europe? Is it the tax? Are those the red lines? What is it?"

“There's a time for everything,” says Bubrowski, reminding us of 2017: “We saw in Jamaica how that can destroy even trusting conversations.

And I don't think that's in anyone's interest, not even journalists. ”Because Bijan Djir-Sarai (FDP) is another politician whose party is involved in the talks, talk show host Lanz tries in the end from him: "Do you learn more from Mr. Lindner and Mr. Wissing?"

Markus Lanz incredulously: "Mr. Kühnert, are you really as clueless as you are here?"

When asked about Christian Lindner, whom Kühnert referred to as Luftikus during the election campaign, the former Juso chairman shrugs his shoulders again: “I don't even know how he will behave in the negotiations. But so far the chemistry between all those involved seems to be right. ”“ Mr. Kühnert, are you really as clueless as you are here? ”Asks Markus Lanz again. “Why should I pretend to be more stupid than I am now? I just want to give an honest answer to your question. Just believe me, I trust those who are on the trail for my party. "

Then the host bites his teeth on the subject of the Juso parliamentary group in the Bundestag. “Are you organizing them? As a former Juso boss, as the cerebrum of these Jusos? ”Asks Lanz. Kühnert can't help but laugh at the question and asks: “We didn't have it smaller today, right?” Moderator Lanz explains that the Kevin Kühnert documentary by NDR gives reason for such assumptions: “I thought wow! Kevin Kühnert, he's the biggest puller the SPD has seen in a long time. I thought that. It's a compliment, isn't it? "

“That now depends on the perspective, but I wouldn't share the thesis,” says Kühnert calmly. After the group saw an excerpt from the documentary in which today's party chairmen Saskia Esken and Norbert Walter-Borjans were coached by Kühnert for a performance, he said: "Any hobby strategist who came along could have explained that to you."

But for a short time it gets explosive.

The choice of Esken and Walter-Borjans was right to separate the SPD chairmanship and government offices, explains Kühnert.

"Should it stay that way," as Lanz knows? "He thinks that" at least in part "is good, explains the SPD vice-president - it is possible within the framework of a dual leadership.

This is the next speculation in the world - even if Kühnert no longer wants to respond to the question “So Olaf Scholz and Saskia Esken?”.

You can now whisper about this castling as well as about ministerial posts for Esken or Walter-Borjans.

Kevin Kühnert with "Markus Lanz" meekly towards Scholz: "I also treated Olaf Scholz unfairly"

Kühnert makes no secret of the party's internal opposition to Olaf Scholz (SPD), after all, he supported today's party leadership around Esken and Walter-Borjans. However, the former Juso boss seems to have given some thought to the way: “Olaf Scholz was treated unfairly, also by me and the Jusos. There have also been comments about it. Damnations turned out harder than they should have been. "

“Are you sorry?” Asks talk host Lanz. Kühnert says: “It's always a little cheap to say in retrospect: I'm sorry. Because you were involved in it yourself. ”“ Do you regret that? ”Lanz continues. The SPD vice-president doesn't make it look like this: “In the end, it didn't hurt any of us that much. Well, I think it actually helped us, this bathroom that we went through, in all these months, to pull ourselves together afterwards. "

But Kühnert also reveals a few new details about Scholz's candidate for chancellor in August 2020.

“Of course I was angry,” admits the then Juso boss.

A "round of five, the two party chairmen, Olaf Scholz, Rolf Mützenich and Lars Klingbeil", put together and agreed on Scholz's nomination, reports Kühnert.

It was about putting to the test whether nothing leaks out from this group.

In the Juso federal board, he was sometimes not even believed that he had not been informed.

"Of course this is a political pressure situation!"

“Markus Lanz” - the conclusion of the show

Markus Lanz tried on Thursday evening to find out details about the traffic light probes from politicians Kevin Kühnert (SPD) and Bijan Djir-Sarai (FDP).

However, nothing comes of it, because the two do not let anything leak to the public.

During the conversation with Kühnert, host Markus Lanz also begs the SPD vice-president to put in a good word for him with party leader Saskia Esken, who refuses to appear on his show.

"I'll think about that again at the end of the show," comments Kühnert with a satisfied grin.