Alexander Schellenberg admits with a smile that he did not imagine himself becoming Chancellor of Austria.
But circumstances led the professional diplomat, 52, a member of an aristocratic family, a lawyer by education, born in Switzerland and raised in India, Spain and France - where his father also served as a senior Austrian foreign minister - to take the place of Austrian Prime Minister Sebastian Kurz. Criminally suspected of using public funds to advance his political career in the Austrian media.
Schalenberg, who served as foreign minister under Kurtz, is considered very close to his predecessor in office.
His appointment as chancellor about a month ago prevented the break-up of the fragile coalition between the Conservatives and the "Greens" in Vienna.
Circumstances will also cause Schallenberg to take Kurtz's place this week at the inauguration of one of the projects that the previous chancellor personally promoted in full swing: Destroyed by the Nazis in World War II.
Chancellor of Austria and Eldad Beck,
Schalenberg, say his associates, shares the great commitment that Kurtz has shown to the Jewish community in Austria and to Israel.
On the occasion of the inauguration of the "Walls of Names", Schalenberg gave an exclusive interview to "Israel Today" in his office in Vienna, in which he refers to Austria's role in the Holocaust, the fight against anti-Semitism, renewed negotiations in Vienna at the end of the month.
76 years after the end of World War II, this week, on the anniversary of the Kristallnacht pogrom, a "Wall of Names" monument will be inaugurated in Vienna on which the names of some 65,000 Austrian Jews murdered in the Holocaust were engraved. What does this monument mean to you, a member of the first generation of your family born after the war?
This monument has a very big meaning for me.
This is an important step in which Austria shows its citizens and descendants of Holocaust victims that we are not only looking at them as part of the blackest chapter of our history, but treating them on a human level.
These are people, not just numbers, citizens who have been a very significant part of life in Vienna and Austria, of our society, a part that has been destroyed.
Of course, one can criticize that this is only done after decades.
But, in my opinion, it is important that Austria does this, also in the context of the decision we recently made to grant Austrian citizenship to the families of deportees and Holocaust victims.
It is a human act, through which we actually thank those who do it.
For, they are showing their faith in the new Austria. "
What led Austria to choose precisely this type of Holocaust commemoration?
"There was a debate that lasted for decades, which monument should be built. My predecessor, Sebastian Kurz, passed a resolution in 2018 to build a monument, inspired by Yad Vashem. In our memory culture we should try to treat on a human and emotional level. The victims were not just numbers, but Human Fates: In my opinion, one of the most impressive halls at Yad Vashem, which excites me every time I visit and brings tears to my eyes, is the last hall covered with pictures of victims, including children. There were people, not a group, not a number, not something anonymous, I think that message goes well through the 'walls of names'.
Austria has for decades denied any responsibility for the Holocaust, claiming it was the first victim of Nazi Germany. Factual - Many Austrians played an important role in the extermination of European Jewry. Do Austrians today accept history as it was?
"I think so. There has been a very significant development in recent years: speeches in the Knesset by former Chancellor Franz Vernitzky and President Thomas Klastil, moving away from the claim that we were only victims and acknowledging that among the most horrific criminals were Austrians and that we have political and social responsibility for it. The Washington Declaration, the compensation agreement that Austria paid for, even though this agreement seems to some to be unsatisfactory, clearly means that the wounds can never be healed financially. I think the discourse in Austria today is very different from what it was in the 1980s. We must not think that everything is behind us and we must stop. Unfortunately, we see that anti-Semitism is showing its terrible face in new ways. The fight against anti-Semitism must be consistent. Want to prevent there ever being such barbarism again,Each generation is committed to working for itself on this history. "
You mentioned the 'Washington Declaration'. Some survivors and descendants claim that by returning only a small portion of the expropriated Jewish property, Austria missed an opportunity to reconcile with its Jews. What do you think?
"I understand the sensitivity associated with the issue. It was just a gesture, and it could only have been a gesture. It could not bring back to life people who were murdered, or bring back lost years. But, if you ask the Jewish community in Austria and the Jews living here, they will say It was not the only and last step. It was only recently that we decided on additional budget assistance to secure the Jewish community and fund its activities. It is important for us to see the black chapters in our history, but also to ensure that we have a thriving and vibrant community here. "I am big and I am proud and happy that more and more Jews are feeling well in Austria, and also that so many people have applied for Austrian citizenship as an expression of trust in the new Austria."
Do you have an explanation for why Jews in Austria feel safer than Jews in Germany or France?
"I can not judge the situation in France or Germany. In any case, the Austrian government is doing a great deal to ensure this. We have made it clear that this is a community with special security needs. Where four people were killed and 23 were seriously injured).
Although he did not aim against the synagogue.
But, in the first moments, we feared that this was an attempt to harm the synagogue.
There is great sensitivity.
Beyond that, it must not be forgotten that Jewish life in Vienna greatly influenced Austrian society.
When one thinks, for example, of the beginning of the 20th century - of the Jewish contribution to science, culture, literature, the arts, to academic life - without the Jews the flourishing of that period would not have taken place.
And the recognition of this makes Jews feel better and more secure here. "
Trials are still under way in Germany against people who took part in the extermination of European Jewry. Why are there no such trials in Austria?
"Where crimes have been committed The justice system will be activated in full force. I do not know potential cases for such trials. But, regardless of the age of the criminals, justice should be done. I guarantee the justice system will respond where it needs to respond, The Austrian justice system is not afraid to act on the matter. "
Nuclear talks with Iran in Vienna, Photo: Reuters
At the end of the month, negotiations with Iran on the nuclear deal are due to resume in Vienna. Israel compares the regime in Iran to the Nazi regime and the Vienna agreement from 2015 to the Munich agreement from 1938. Do you also see such a resemblance?
"In all honesty no. We have massive problems with the Iranian leadership, for example in the context of Holocaust denial. We made it very clear to them. But, the negotiations are an attempt to prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear bomb. It has been shown that the absence of an agreement is worse than the existence of an imperfect agreement. Of course, the nuclear deal is not perfect. There are areas, such as missile program development, that are not included at all. But, as the saying goes: Dror is better in the hand than a dove on the roof. Recent years have shown that the period of implementation of the agreement has shortened, according to experts, the time that Iran needs to acquire nuclear weapons. The last thing the international community is interested in is a nuclear arms race in the Gulf region. It will cause great instability for all of us. I understand the skeptical voices in Israel regarding the agreement. But history shows that the lack of dialogue does not lead to results and our goal should be to bring Iran into the framework of a supervisory agreement on behalf of the International Atomic Energy Agency, so that we can see what they are doing. Without this we have no option but to monitor them.
As a former foreign minister, you are well acquainted with the Iranian case. Is it possible to trust the Iranians at all?
"Trust is probably the least available resource in the Gulf region. And it's also a big issue in the nuclear deal negotiations.
That is why trust is very much needed.
Trust cannot be produced in silence.
Iran itself has expressed a desire to return to the negotiating table. There are very clear rules and preconditions on our part. Trust can only be achieved through a contract, oversight and transparency from the Iranian side that will give us the confidence that they will not continue to develop a nuclear program. Together, we will have to build maximum transparency, without which there will be no nuclear agreement. "
Will you understand that Israel will say at some point in time - "It's enough, if nothing is done now, Iran will acquire nuclear weapons" and therefore Israel will respond militarily?
If we follow this logic, then we must strongly support the negotiation and renewal of the agreement. "International, in international rules. These are the only things that last for a long time. Everything else is immediate steps that may bring something for a while, but over time do not produce sustainable security."
Uranium enrichment facility in Iran, Photo: AP
Can the EU contribute to the normalization between Arab countries and Israel being extended so that more countries join the Abrahamic Accords?
"I think so. Abraham's agreements have changed the rules of the game. This is one of the most interesting things that has happened in recent years. It is often said in the Middle East: there can be no further progress, and blacks are predicting extremely black scenarios.
The Middle East is always surprising, for better or worse. Abraham's agreements are a real breakthrough and I think based on our line of two state solution we need maximum normalization. A few days ago I hosted the King of Jordan here, I was in the Gulf myself and very interesting to see how much potential there is in this relationship "Between Israel and the Arab states. This is an encouraging development and our position supports the goal of a two-state solution. We in the European Union need to do our part to promote this normalization."
The relations between Austria and Israel have known ups and downs over the years - there was the Waldheim affair, the Haider affair. But in recent years ties have improved significantly. In what areas would you like to see more cooperation in relations between the two countries?
There is still a lot of potential to advance the relationship and we are working really intensively on the strategic partnership between us.
Scientific exchanges, of civil society, economics.
We can still learn a lot from Israel in the fields of start-ups and high-tech.
We very consciously made the decision to tighten relations with Israel.
We have said that Israel's security is a significant part of our foreign policy and our official policy.
I also see this in a geopolitical context.
We are a minority of countries that share the same model of life.
Freedom of opinion, independence of the judiciary, democracy, freedom of religion, rejection of violence.
"More or less 25% of all countries in the UN represent this model of life, including Israel and Austria. These countries belong to a family of values, so we must stand together and work together."
Do you see similarities between Austria and Israel?
"(Laughs) Israel is warmer and has more beaches than ours. An interesting question, I have not thought about it yet. We have a lot of historical lines in common. For better - like Herzl, for example, and for bad. There are many human bridges between the two countries, more precisely between The people in Austria and the people in Israel, who have never been destroyed. I think this is the strongest bond between us. Of course Israel has very demanding neighbors, while we live within the European family. But, our friendships face many similar situations. Especially in the Corona crisis "Israel is a very special case for us, and we are closely following what is happening in it. Israel is always a few months ahead of us."
Will you visit Israel soon?
"I really hope so. I had a very friendly conversation with Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, and I met with him in Glasgow where we talked about the Corona treatment.
It seems that I will be able to visit Israel before Christmas. "
