Loose body language, a less monotonous tone of voice than usual and a relaxed incubator that emerges from it during the conversation.
Nothing to speak of, Yuli Edelstein is undergoing a change with himself.
The kind Knesset member, former Knesset speaker and health minister who first encountered the Corona front, has recently been in an assault position. The government and honorably enter the Prime Minister's Office, and all this in the current calendar year.
The decision to go to the fateful battle with Netanyahu, he emphasizes, is not related to his tensions with the former prime minister, but only to the growing fear that the current government, which threw him and his Likud members into opposition benches, will soon become a "left-wing government". Substitute Yair Lapid.
"With Lapid as prime minister, we will also reach Oslo III, because there will be no one to oppose," he warns.
"This is the first time since Ehud Olmert that the left has a prime minister in Israel, who, if we do not arrest him, will lead to unilateral political moves. The only one who can prevent Meir Lapid from being prime minister is Yuli Edelstein."
There is a new government, a week ago passed a budget. Are you coming now?
"There is no big secret here. I came to a double conclusion: one, that Netanyahu does not intend to resign and is not going anywhere, and that is his right. And second, if I do not start rolling the ball, nothing in the Likud will move.
"I could have announced it a week before or after, but I realized that I had to start and work seriously to be elected Likud leader. It is true that I have no answer as to whether the primaries will take place this month or in three months, but I estimate there will be primaries next year. "After the budget transfer event, that if we in the Likud do not hold primaries and I do not elect the Likud leadership, Lapid's path to becoming prime minister will be paved, with all the consequences of that."
It seems like your attempt to divert the conversation to Lapid, so that we do not talk about the battle with Netanyahu.
"Lapid is the issue, and I have no personal problem with him, but with the way. I try very hard to be consistent in both the opposition and the coalition. When Lapid was in opposition he preached against the appointments, against the coalition funds and against Norwegian law, and on the day he arrived Overturned.
"I can and will bring the Likud back to power in the current Knesset, without elections. If that does not happen next year, Lapid will enter the Prime Minister's office and the situation will be completely different, because Naftali Bennett is currently sitting there without public support, with a small party and no camp. If Lapid Will arrive at the Prime Minister's Office - and we all pray that there will be no severe war, severe economic crisis or new corona wave - after half a year the left camp will be revived, where they will see that well, and we, the national camp, will be in a completely different situation.
"I am in favor of returning the Likud and the national camp to power. I have the power to prevent Lapid from coming to the Prime Minister's Office. He got on an autopilot on the way to rotation, and we in the Likud are doing nothing.
how?
"The simple way is to vote no confidence in the government, which is joined by elements in the current coalition. All those parties and those personalities that it is not their life's dream to sit in Lapid's government, which will be ultimately run by the Islamic movement. I suppose such factors will be found."
Just guessing? Or have you already closed with elements who would be willing to dismantle the government and follow you?
"There can be no closure before I am elected to the Likud. As they say in our districts: the suckers are over. You can not close without a victory in the primaries, and only after the Likud Center members elect me will we embark on a new path. "Get him out of the game. It's not good to do that, and it's not nice either, but it's a fact."
A fact that serves you.
(Nods his head) "I could, after the madness as Minister of Health, rest, get to the plenum, raise my hand - and the rest of the time enjoy life and wait maybe for the wheel to turn. But I'm here not to be a Knesset member and get a salary. An idea of how to run a state. There are people in this coalition who neither I nor 90 percent of the State of Israel have a common vision with them about the future of the state.
"So in this situation, go to sea because you are in opposition? What to do, there are currently no primaries, I am only a Knesset member. It is true that I am number 2 in the Likud, it is true that I was last elected first in the primaries, but I am not willing to put up with reality. The reality, and not to come to terms with it. "
torch.
"Compare me with him," Photo: Oren Ben Hakon
"I admit the battle is tough"
Where is the confidence that you can defeat Netanyahu in the primaries?
"I have such a custom, for many, many years, to call center members and branch heads, wish them a happy birthday and the holidays. Travel in the car and pick up four phones a day.
"The regular dialogue from three months ago was like this: I'm calling someone, and he would answer me, 'Aww, Mr. Minister, what does it sound like?'
I would correct and tell him I was a former minister. People always said to me, 'Leave nonsense, July, you're coming back in a few weeks. It's a bad thing, leave, July.'
"This conversation no longer takes place in the last month, when members of the Likud Center realized that the discourse had changed since the budget was passed on first reading. Time is also doing its thing: now that the state budget has been finally approved, despite all hope for defectors, "This is another reason to understand that we are stuck here, and that this is not an event of a few weeks."
Netanyahu claims that the Likud will return to power.
"We heard Netanyahu at the local government conference, saying that we will return, and that it may take weeks or three and a half years. He said that, and I add that we cannot wait for the three and a half years that were imposed on us when we lost the election."
Do you think Netanyahu should retire?
"Only he has to make the decisions whether to retire. It would be funny for me to determine for others whether they should run or retire. He probably believes he has not yet said the last word in the political system, and I after four times do not understand it. Netanyahu does not retire and go nowhere "There are those who are waiting to be done the work for him, and there are those who are initiating and taking leadership."
How do you plan to replace Netanyahu, when polls published after Nir Barkat's announcement revealed that he is leading?
"First of all, I admit that the battle is difficult. I did not fight hard against Netanyahu because I recognized a political opportunity to easily defeat a wounded lion and ascend to the summit. I fought a battle with the understanding that this country, and the Likud and national camp "I say I have to do the right thing. On the other hand, in the same breath I know I would not have gone to battle with Netanyahu if I did not think I could win."
Gideon Saar also spoke like that, and we know how it ended.
"On a practical level, they try to make a media comparison between my candidacy and that of Gideon Saar.
"And I? I go into battle after the prime minister went down in opposition. Netanyahu failed to form a government several times, with the Likud each time getting good results in the election. This is my answer to those who tell me 'Netanyahu brings more seats than you'. So we will live and see.
"Regarding the question in the polls, 'Who do you prefer at the head of the Likud?'
"But there is no such thing as a poll among Likud functionaries. Those who will elect the Likud leadership in the primaries are 130,000 people. There I work and concentrate the effort. The polls can not test them, there are many groups and many families and many influences. ".
Labor is a sister party to the Likud?
"I say sister party because it's still holding primaries. In other parties someone sits down for a cup of coffee and makes some numerical list. In general, in primaries polls, in the face of the reality of the election, no one is ever accurate. But only charlatans do functional surveys.I do not know such an exact thing.
"When you do a poll, the Likud led by Netanyahu versus the Likud led by me, there are two right things: Netanyahu brings more seats, but I have a government with fewer seats; a sharp and clear government, without approaching the left parties and the Islamic movement. A full national government."
With Benjamin Netanyahu, Minister of Health.
"My decision did not make us enemies who are just thinking how to put one poison in each other's soup", Photo: Bnei Sahar
After your dramatic announcement do you feel relieved?
"Since the announcement I have lost 20 kilos off my shoulders. Until then, every time I was interviewed about the corona, for example, I was asked about coping, and I started squirming. It's not healthy for the body. After the announcement many journalists told me, 'At least you say in your name and face They say in closed rooms. "I prefer this transparency."
"They shouted at me 'Take care of Bibi'"
Edelstein says that they wished him success with the move on all sides - both in the Likud, in the opposition and in the coalition.
Even before his official announcement of the deal, which he gave a month ago in a television interview, rumors began to surface about things he said in closed conversations.
He now reveals that a month before the announcement, a "coalition member from the coalition" approached him and asked him if it was true that he was running.
"I answered him in the affirmative, and he asked if I had a chance. I explained to him that without a chance I would not run. He said to me, 'Well, good luck' - and left. Then he stopped and said to me: 'Wait, if you are elected - our coalition "It was his tongue."
Sounds almost dreamy. Who is the anonymous MK?
"I will not find out. But there were almost no cases in which someone argued with me about my analysis. Likud MKs show loyalty to Netanyahu in the media, but in personal conversations they understand my analysis. None of them told me I fell on my head."
If your plan does not work and you finally find yourself outside the Likud, will you form your own party?
"I will not form my own party. I was and will remain in the Likud, and I intend to win and lead. This is another difference between me and a storm story. For Gideon, from the first moment his personal issue and his personal battle with Netanyahu was felt. Between me and Netanyahu.
"We worked together in the Corona crisis in a synchronized way, when I was Minister of Health. We could not deceive the public if we were many. We had many hours together and appeared at many press conferences. Netanyahu and I know how to work together, but Netanyahu's way to return to prime minister is blocked." .
If you and Netanyahu get along so well, how is it that you sit next to each other in the plenum and barely exchange a word?
"Netanyahu and I talk all the time. We read the same books and magazines, exchange reading material and discuss what we read. We have scathing comments on speeches we hear in the plenum, and he consulted with me before speaking, hours after I announced I was facing him. Only now, in the nightly marathon on The state budget, we had to keep each other cities. All the time the guys shouted at me 'why do not you keep Bibi wrong six times in the votes?'
They shouted at me, "July, take care."
Last week you had a four-eye meeting. What was said in it?
"The official response to the meeting between us was that we dealt with ways to overthrow the government, and I of course do not make four-way talks. It was during the famous break on Thursday night, after the coalition vote. Netanyahu called and invited me to the bureau. We have been working together for 30 years. We spent more nights together than with our families.
"In the meeting we did talk quite a bit about ways to overthrow the government, and I will not hide from you that on this issue everything was in good spirits, and we are on the same side. It is no secret that Netanyahu believes he can return to the prime minister's chair, but I have a hard time It has made us enemies who are just thinking about how to put one poison in each other's soup. "
Did you also talk about a date for holding primaries?
"We also got to talk about the primaries, and there is no date. I can say that both Netanyahu and I are ready to hold them when the party center decides. I work to advance the primaries. "Why this is essential and realistic in the coming months? Only members of the Likud Center will decide, and I will do everything to convince them."
Along with wishing success, Edelstein is troubled, he says, by the reactions he has received since his announcement.
"I'll tell you something sad from the last few weeks, a sad phenomenon: alongside the support I get in messages and mobilization of a lot of people, in Likudniks' meetings and also on the street, when I go for a walk - they keep telling me 'Congratulations on your courage, what a brave man you are.' To cry, I just want to cry every time I hear it. "
Why cry?
"Because I chose to make the most normal move, I did not attack a squad of terrorists with bare hands. I reminded myself that I was a senior member of a Democratic Party, which after many years of rule went down in opposition."
Do you really not understand why challenging Netanyahu in the Likud is perceived as brave?
"Well, where did we get to? The very thought that someone else wants to be elected besides Netanyahu is something that requires courage? Is it something that requires courage? Netanyahu is not threatening. I have seen in my life people who are much more threatening. Prisoner with sharks of the Soviet underworld who are with you in the cell 24/7.
So that no one in the Israeli political system will think he can scare me.
"Netanyahu and I usually had a good relationship, and also quarrels, as the public saw. I never came out of hatred, jealousy or a desire to hurt. There will be confrontation, and I will not be with any slander - neither about Netanyahu nor the other candidates, if any. I will present The abilities, the way and the experience, and for me that is enough. "
Nir Barkat, Miri Regev, Israel Katz, Avi Dichter. How do the "The Day After Netanyahu" contestants react to you?
"I talk to everyone all the time, and there is no one from the Likud faction, certainly from the seniors as potential candidates, that I can not sit down with for a good personal conversation. I always remember and understand that the day after the primaries victory I will have to work with everyone. "I won. They can be part of the leadership, and I'm talking to everyone."
I will ask you in Israeli: Fucked about you?
"It's not a matter of getting mad, but they told me, 'What are you jumping for? He's going soon.'
I tell these friends, who are young, that decades of experience and working with Netanyahu give me the opportunity to say that he does not intend to retire, and that is his full right.
I heard about candidates who want to join the race for the Likud presidency, and hello.
But I have never met a person who won the lottery without filling out a form. "
Why you? You have not held the position of senior minister or security guard. You do not get much support in the polls. Is this resume suitable for a prime minister?
"I remember how not just a general, but one of the most talented, Ehud Barak, managed to destroy a country within a year and a half. So with all due respect to the most advanced military degrees, they teach nothing about being fit for prime minister.
"There are no shortcuts to the prime minister, and there is no knight on a white horse who will suddenly appear and lead the people towards sunset. Even Bnei Gantz, who was chief of staff, what will he do with an MK who refuses, for example, to pass a budget?
"I have 25 years of experience in the Knesset, seven years of experience as Speaker of the Knesset, and I am acceptable to everyone and know how to run coalitions.
During my years as Speaker of the Knesset and as a member of the Security Cabinet, I was exposed to all the most sensitive security information, and as such I was involved in decision-making. Security is not only where to ambush soldiers, but also to sit in front of the US .
The army went into action when the political sphere failed. "
With his beloved bitch Kiki.
He also plays table tennis with the guys at the fighter's house, Photo: Efrat Eshel
Are you trying to get Netanyahu's support for the day after?
"If he stays in the political system, we will certainly work together, and I will make every effort to continue to consult with him and help him. He has vast experience. His achievements throughout his career cannot be taken away from him - the embassy in Jerusalem and the Golan Heights and other real achievements. "With all due respect, July, you are loved, but Netanyahu is Netanyahu." I say: Stop comparing me to Netanyahu, compare me to Lapid. "
Are you following Netanyahu's trial?
"To be honest, I do not follow on a daily basis, but I do see that some of the accusations are crumbling and unproven. When I say I do not follow, it comes from the assumption that as we know the justice system, it will last for many years. A person is entitled before the court has ruled otherwise. "
Is there a connection, as MK David Bitan said, between your declaration of confrontation with Netanyahu and the intention to pass the law that a criminal accused will not be able to form a government?
"I think the law that Gideon Saar is trying to promote is an unnecessary law. It will only increase the feeling that Netanyahu is being persecuted by everyone. I, as someone who has announced that he wants a clean confrontation, think things are much more harmful to me than to Netanyahu - if such a law passes. Netanyahu will say now." "It is clear that I am being persecuted and that this is a personal law, give us 61 and we will change the law." Laws are not changed in this way.
storm.
"Promoting unnecessary law", Photo: Oren Ben Hakon
What do you think about the behavior of MKs from the Likud in the plenum recently? Did you not exaggerate?
"I tell MKs that very clear opinions can be expressed not in extremism.
No need for shouting, screaming and derogatory names.
We should remember that they are looking at us.
In a marathon of meetings with the Likudniks many of them told me that they were really ashamed of all the shouting and screaming.
Many members of the Likud Center are looking for a different style. "
And maybe you are looking for Miri Regev's style, and not yours?
"The Likudniks are looking for a respectable style, which should be connected with clear positions."
"Do not buy the Bennett theories"
Edelstein (63) lives in Herzliya Pituach with his wife Irina Nevzlin (43), president of the Pentropia Foundation Keren Nadav, chairman of "We", the Jewish People's Museum, and the daughter of businessman Leonid Nevzlin. They have two children, aged 10 and 13. Edelstein is also the father of Yael (45) and Sefi (31), from his marriage to his first wife Tatiana (Tania), who died about eight years ago after a battle with cancer.
When he was health minister, he shares, he used to sleep only three hours a night, and "the first thing I did when I woke up was reach for a cell phone and see the morbidity data."
Today he does not wake up until the children wake up home with the need to go to school, and of course to take Kiki, his beloved bitch, on a one-on-one trip.
Twice a week he devotes to strength training with a home trainer.
He also swims in the sea near his house, and is not willing to give up "the love of his life" - a table tennis game with the guys at the warrior's house.
Before announcing his contest Nefel Edelstein on a short vacation in the North, "something I did not have time to do for a long time."
When you see the Speaker of the Knesset, Miki Levy, sitting in the chair where you sat, is there a pinch in your heart?
"I left this position. I left it because of a rude intervention by the High Court (which responded to a blue-and-white request, the joint list, Yisrael Beiteinu and Labor-Gesher-Meretz to hold an immediate hearing to elect a new chairman; DRA) and resigned because I was unable to Carry out High Court orders issued without substantiation or legal authority.
"But if you ask, I remember myself as Minister of Absorption. It was important for me to help the immigrants, and I was in the office from eight in the morning until midnight. When the upheaval came and Ehud Barak came to power, I had to leave. "For a television broadcast in a role that was mine, I felt I had caught my wife cheating on me. The Ministry of Absorption was mine, and now he is in a relationship with Yuli Tamir. How can that be?"
Do you feel the same way when you see Health Minister Nitzan Horowitz step into your shoes?
"Then I was 41, today I am 63. I have released, and I am looking forward and advancing. I had the right to have a crisis, perhaps one of the most difficult in the history of the State of Israel, and I had the opportunity to save lives. I am not stuck in the past."
What do you think about the way the current government is conducting itself in the face of the fourth wave of the plague?
"We have moved on a clean and immunized country, to the point where we have removed the masks indoors. The new government has disrespected professionals, acted arrogantly, inexperiencedly - and the result is fatal. Its main mistake is lack of response in time, disregard for professionals and disregard for them. There was a populist wave. Of celebrations that caused unnecessary things, serious illness and mortality. "
Did the Delta strain not change the picture after you left?
"I do not buy Bennett's theories that this is not Corona but Delta. It took seven weeks for the government to understand that it will not pass. Just wait, and there were seriously ill and unnecessary deaths here. I too would not make closures in a vaccinated country, but had to respond faster."
At the beginning of the plague, after giving instructions to the people at a press conference, a mass birthday party was held at your house for your wife. Looking back, do you regret it?
"Everything was kosher and according to the instructions. I would repeat the same thing, because I did nothing wrong. I always said that I did not want to stop living, but to keep the instructions."
עם רעייתו, אירינה נבזלין. "צחקתי כשמעתי את התיאוריה שמועמדותה ליו"ר הסוכנות היהודית קשורה לתזמון ההכרזה שלי", צילום: אורן בן חקון
רעייתך, אירינה, מועמדת לתפקיד יו"ר הסוכנות היהודית. יש לזה קשר לתזמון של הכרזתך?
"בפעם הראשונה ששמעתי את התיאוריה הזו צחקתי. הרי אני בא ואומר שיש בכוחי להפיל את הממשלה הזו במיידי, ולא לתת ליאיר לפיד להיות ראש ממשלה. איך בעקבות זה יאיר לפיד מתאהב בי ועוזר לאשתי להיבחר ליו"ר הסוכנות?
"מצער אותי שזו התגובה, בטח מצד נשים שחלקן מגדירות את עצמן פמיניסטיות ונלחמות למען נשים. הן אומרות על אירינה ש'היא נשואה ליולי אדלשטיין, ולכן היא תיישם את המדיניות שלו'. זה גורם לי בחילה. אנחנו במאה ה־21, ויכול להיות שיש בעל ואישה שלכל אחד מהם יש קריירה עצמאית. אשתי הוזמנה להתמודד לתפקיד בזכות הישגיה במוזיאון העם היהודי ובתחומים האחרים. כל אלה ממש לא בזכות הקריירה של בעלה".
Finally, it is impossible not to ask: what do you think of your imitation in "A Wonderful Land"?
"He's great! In the past, my imitations were not so successful, until Yaniv Bitton arrived. It's very interesting, because he's not like me at all. .
Yaniv Bitton imitated by Edelstein, Photo: Screenshot from "Eretz Nehederet"
"The first time he imitated me, my wife and I laughed like crazy. He caught all the nuances, and thanks to him I try to get rid of some of them. He puts a magnifying glass inside me. I try to get rid of unnecessary parasitic words, and especially the monotony. I learn from him and feel sorry for him. "Politicians who are offended by their imitations. This is a great opportunity to learn things about yourself and get better."
danieller@israelhayom.co.il