Hani Sabag's initial reaction, when she heard about the idea of collaborating with Amira Jaber Qassem on a unique high-tech venture, was reluctance.
"A mutual acquaintance of ours in the field of education told me about the idea of a statement - assisting with placement through virtual reality, and asked if I would like to cooperate with it. I said to her cynically in Yiddish 'Goodbye, be healthy, what about me and the Arabs?'
I canceled the idea completely.After a week the mine called again and said: A statement insists.
"I said, 'Come on, give me the number,' but the truth is I did not intend to call. Five minutes later my phone rang, and when I answered I heard a girl with an Arabic accent. It was a statement. In less than seven hours of conversation we had a written idea with which we set off. ".
Amira (32), married and the mother of Muhammad (8) and Kinda (4 years old), grew up and lived most of her life in Abu Ghosh, and currently lives in the mixed Galilee landscape, dressed as an average hitchhiker.
Hani (39), married with three sons, Moishe (16), Roly (11) and Shloimi (10), comes from Bnei Brak, with a wig and traditional Haredi clothing.
Together, in November 2020, the two created an extraordinary partnership between a Muslim and an ultra-Orthodox: a startup called "Job 360", which aims to train ultra-Orthodox men and women, Arabs and Arabs, to handle job interviews on the job market - using a simulator that provides tools and tips The decisive.
In other words: a virtual room that simulates a job interview and a work environment in a standard high-tech company.
"Our venture is actually a website that deals with all the skills that are very much needed in the job market," explains Amira.
"These are skills such as problem solving, managing relationships in the workplace, the ability to impress superiors and those around them, and abilities of leadership and originality.
"Take for example a Muslim or ultra-Orthodox woman: in a job interview it is advisable to look the interviewer in the eye, but they will not look. The employer will interpret this as self-doubt, while in practice it is an act of basic modesty in our sectors.
"Another example: an Arab woman sits down for a work meeting with a man in a cafe, for example. If someone from her village sees her with the 'foreign' man and tells about it - problems will start."
Hani nods: "An ultra-Orthodox woman will be interviewed at a workplace, and her first question will be whether there is a filtered Internet - which allows surfing without exposure to sites with problematic or blatant content. This may cause the entire interview to fail.
"Or, for example, an ultra-Orthodox man who arrives on the first day at a new workplace. He will encounter questions from managers or employees, such as whether a synagogue should be opened for him or what to do with the chametz on Passover. Workplaces have rules and nuances that are out of the question. "To mediate for the ultra-Orthodox man, the Arab woman and the ultra-Orthodox woman the norms that are customary in the secular public."
• • •
Hani Sabag was born in Bnei Brak in 1982, the eldest daughter of Yehiel and Aliza, a student and educator, along with 11 other brothers.
When she was a year old, her mother was appointed director of the Be'er Ya'akov Girls' Seminary in Beer Yaakov, and her father was appointed secretary of the Mossad.
The family, who moved to the boarding school complex, found themselves living in the heart of a secular settlement.
"As a child, I discovered that the world is not always as beautiful as every average ultra-Orthodox child thinks. I was exposed to a complex reality, such as girls who came from distressed families."
From a young age she was discovered as an entrepreneur.
"In fourth grade, I became the camp director of the girls' staff at the boarding school. In sixth grade, I coordinated a branch of the Banot Batya youth movement, which is like Bnei Akiva - only for ultra-Orthodox girls.
"From a young age my parents pushed me to invent things. My mother always told me and my brothers 'Do not look at the floor, do something'. Spurred me to initiate employment. "Autodidact and very knowledgeable in technologies. From him I got my urge for technology."
Amira was born in 1989, in Abu Ghosh, the eldest of a family of five.
In those years only the men in the village used to go out to work, and the women served mainly as housewives.
"My mother, Huda, was the first woman in the village to go to work, in the early 1990s, in a private nursing home in Shoeva. When I was in sixth grade, she broke ground, despite the objections, and I am always excited to tell about her. To this day she works there, and from there I learned a lot about dedication, tenacity and diligence. "
She studied for a bachelor's degree in sociology and education at the Hebrew University.
"The first year of school was very difficult. I did not have Hebrew as a mother tongue, and I studied with people who saw things in life, who were after service in the army. An Arab student starts school with a built-in gap, and I had to work much harder than Jewish colleagues to excel. It's almost midnight. "
After the degree she went straight to the master's degree.
"My dissertation, on cooperation on social issues between Israelis and Palestinians, was published as an article, and it was an achievement, but my starting point as an Arab citizen in the country is different from that of a person from the Jewish sector. As an Arab, if you want to succeed, you have to strive a million times."
In 2012, she married Salah Qassem, a family law lawyer in Nazareth, and their two children attend a school in Nazareth, because in the Galilee landscape there is not yet a designated school for the Arab sector - even though it constitutes about a third of the city's residents.
"Maybe through the article we will be able to make a change," smiles Amira.
At the beginning of her professional career, in 2014, Amira worked as a project manager in the field of education and employment in the Jerusalem Municipality, and also served as a facilitator of joint groups for Arabs and Israelis.
"I was the first Arab training coordinator in the Jerusalem municipality. I would start a work day at five in the morning to be as good and professional as the other centers, who served in the army and gained experience before me."
Shortly afterwards, she became the director of the training and knowledge development department at the Ryan Centers, in an initiative of the Ministry of Economy that works to integrate, promote and empower Arab society in the world of work and training.
The centers work to reduce economic and social disparities to provide tools and skills to those seeking to expand their livelihood opportunities.
Meanwhile, Hani has also made progress in the employment market.
In the early 2000s, she studied teaching at the Beit Yaakov school in Bnei Brak, and later ran a youth training center.
At the beginning of her educational career, she was a teacher in the ultra-Orthodox education network "Bnei Yosef", and until a few weeks ago she was a techno-pedagogical coordinator in the network.
At the same time, she worked part-time as the director of a training and employment center in the Or HaChaim network of institutions.
In 2004, she married Pini, a teacher in the morning and a student at the Bnei Brak Kollel in the afternoon.
Despite the fact that she is involved in a high-tech venture that aims to promote ultra-Orthodox in the world of employment, their three children attend an educational institution where there are no core studies.
"It does not bother me," Hani explains.
"Knowledge can always be acquired, no matter what age. What matters is the skills - thinking, reading, expression and more. As a mother I give them the tools with which they can fill in the gaps later. The values are more important to me than the prevailing perception in the economy. They receive some of the core studies from me at home and in classes. "
• • •
113 kilometers separate the Galilee landscape of Amira from Bnei Brak of Hani.
An hour and a quarter of driving without traffic jams, light years in the differences between the sectors.
The two say that from the moment they first met and started talking, first zooming in and then face-to-face, they discovered that there is "a lot in common between the populations": basic conservatism, women's modesty, difficulties stemming from a lack of common language with the secular world, and more.
The partnership was launched quickly, against the background of a project to which they were exposed only a week after their first meeting - "an exemplary country".
This is a competition to encourage startups, which for them was a golden opportunity to start their venture.
"Our first meetings were zoomed in," Hani recalls.
"Our physical premiere meeting was only a few weeks later, when we came to shoot a joint video in which we presented our venture to the people of 'Exemplary State.' We met in an office tower in Bnei Brak. There were more people in the room, "Me, until the token fell on both of us. I went to her and we hugged, and it was very exciting."
Hani and Amira.
"We both did not come from the high-tech field, and my neighbors did not serve in 8200, but we had to reach the required professional level," Photo: Courtesy of Amira Qassem
At first, they considered developing, with the help of "exemplary country" professionals, a simulation that would include the use of augmented reality glasses.
The two invested "quite a bit of money", as they define it, in working on the simulation, but eventually came to the conclusion that the idea of virtual reality was "too complex and inefficient" - and turned their efforts to the idea of the virtual room.
Hani: "The truth is that I am glad that we worked on the simulation and spent money on it, because that is how we came to maturity and the understanding that this design will not be implemented, and so we could focus on the more applicable idea."
The startup competition of "Exemplary State" was launched during the third closure of the Corona, in October 2020, under the management of the Or movement and led by individuals from a number of recognized funds, universities and organizations in Israel.
The goal: to locate, formulate, finance and implement innovative and groundbreaking initiatives that will offer diverse solutions for dealing with the employment crisis and improving Israel's economy.
More than 300 ventures entered the competition, and Hani and Amira joined it at the very last minute, just days before registration closed.
"I was shocked when I saw how many Arabs approached this competition - zero," says Amira in disappointment.
"Although Arabs were hit very hard by the upheavals the labor market went through because of the corona, there was no initiative that came from an Arab venture."
In order to be accepted into an "exemplary state", Amira and Hani were required to build their venture quickly, in terms of concept and initial and raw imagery.
Since this was a closure period, much of their work was done in zoom calls.
Hani: "In fact, we have built an online platform that allows a job seeker, Arab or ultra-Orthodox, to view scenarios from the world of work. Optimal about the way in which it is recommended to be interviewed.
"At the entrance, the surfer can choose a user language - Arabic or Hebrew - and then move on to a simulation of his choice, where he watches a video of a job interview and practices possible answers at the click of a button.
"The site also teaches, among other things, where to look during the interview, with an emphasis on women, who in these sectors avoid looking directly into the eyes of men for reasons of modesty."
Statement: "We both did not come from the high-tech field, and my neighbors did not serve in 8200, but we had to reach the required professional level. The hard work on our venture required many hours. So we would finish our normal work day at four in the afternoon, staying with each other. "Her family until eight in the evening, and then they work together, in zoom, until four in the morning. We plowed, we studied, we asked people from all over the world to help us and invest in the venture through the network."
Even today, by the way, the two do not receive a salary from the venture, and are still digging into their savings to fund the startup.
"We are currently working for nothing, and everything we receive from investors - goes in favor of development," Hani explains.
Lahni, contrary to the statement, has no Facebook, nor does she have WhatsApp software on her cell phone - which is considered kosher.
She uses WhatsApp only using a laptop that is in her home, and that is allowed by a rabbi.
"She's a smart woman with a stupid phone," laughs Amira affectionately, and Hani explains: "I'm not disconnected. I have everything I need on the computer, but I do not break through fences and do not look to do so. If there is a red line, I do not cross it. "She once told me that she had a goal for me to have Facebook. I told her not to dream about it, because it would not happen. We will find a way to bridge the gaps without crossing red lines."
At the end of four months of hard work, during which they went through three challenging screening stages, the Investment Committee of "Exemplary State" selected the venture of Amira and Hani among the five winners of the competition.
The prize for the winners: an investment of up to $ 250,000, close accompaniment of entrepreneurs and leading companies, and assistance in connecting to key factors and target audiences.
"We knew we had a great venture, and yet it was an amazing feeling to meet this challenge," Amira smiles.
Prof. Gila Kurtz, Dean of the Faculty of Learning Technologies at the Holon Institute of Technology HIT, is one of the leaders in the "Exemplary State" competition: One of our requests from the project submitters was for them to shoot a two-three minute video in which they would tell about themselves and the initiative. From the moment I saw Amira and Hani in their video, I realized that they are exactly what we are looking for. Since then, I have accompanied them on their journey. "
"We set up an exemplary state venture with Michael Eisenberg and dozens of partners at the beginning of the Corona crisis about a year and a half ago. "Today we understand the need to identify innovative initiatives and promote change at the national level in every area that affects the daily lives of all of us.
Last year we deepened in the field of employment and we invest and accompany 5 extraordinary initiatives, which will affect the process of finding work among young people, employment in the ultra-Orthodox and Arab sector, the self-employed and more, an impact that each of us will eventually feel.
This year we are focusing on mental and community resilience, because we understand that this is the key to building a robust state that can cope with any crisis and moreover, this is the key to true prosperity. "
• • •
In parallel with the joint work on the venture, Hani and Amira began a journey of mutual acquaintance, with each other's population, a subject they admit did not pay too much attention to until then.
"I was in cultural shock when I first visited Hani's house," Amira admits.
"I never expected to meet many ultra-Orthodox, like on her residential street, or even to go to Bnei Brak and enter an ultra-Orthodox house. On the entire refrigerator in Hani's house there are pictures of rabbis. I was photographed against the candlesticks where she lights Shabbat candles. "By the way, I was a little apprehensive the first time I came to Bnei Brak. I asked Hani what the appropriate attire was, if I needed a dress or something. In the end, I learned that I need modest clothes and that's it."
Hani: "Amira was afraid that eggs would be thrown at her, but she found out that the demon was not so terrible."
Saying: "When I was little I used to hang out with my dad in the Old City of Jerusalem, and once stones were thrown at us because we drove on Saturday. So I had concerns. In practice, I discovered lovely people."
Hani also talks about concerns ahead of the meetings at Amira's home in the Galilee landscape and later at her parents' house in Abu Ghosh.
"I got entangled with the bus inside Nazareth, and three young people approached me and started asking questions in Arabic. It was not that I was afraid of the foreign place, but in a city where many people do not speak your language, I still had some apprehension. On the phone to the correct address. "
Hani explains that due to kosher matters, she never ate anything at her partner's house.
"I'm still looking for the ultimate recipe for knapsack, and I admit that the food at Amira looks very good."
A sigh sighs in frustration: "Hani comes to us and does not eat, and I am depressed by this, because hospitality and food are our culture. It is not pleasant, but there is no choice."
Hani: "I must say that in this matter Amira demonstrated high maturity. She should have given up for me something that is in the DNA of her culture, and it is not simple."
One of Hani's visits to Abu Ghosh ended in slight friction against the background of the background differences between the two partnerships.
"We were supposed to enter a meeting held at a mosque in the village, which is the second largest in Israel, and Amira even brought a veil and a special dress, but I told her there was no chance I would enter," Hani recalls.
Why?
"The truth is that according to Judaism it is not a problem to enter a mosque, and I was also very curious to see a mosque from the inside, but for me I did not come there as a private Sabi Sabag, but as a representative of the ultra-Orthodox public.
Saying: "It bothered me, because in my logic there is no impediment to entering a mosque, it is the house of God. But in the end one has to learn to respect the desires of the partner. There are things that I will not agree with either, everyone has red lines, so I understood it. I I entered a synagogue myself, I do not care. "
Amira and Hani's virtual project, "Job 360",
• • •
On May 10, 2021, seven months after they met and set out, the partnership between Hani and Amira was put to a difficult ideological test.
On the same day, at six in the evening, rockets were fired from the direction of Gaza into Jerusalem (which, by the way, hit the Abu Ghosh area) - and Operation Wall Guard began, amid a wave of friction and violent riots in Israeli cities involved.
For a week and a half, rockets and missiles were fired at Israel, including those aimed at the central region, while the IDF simultaneously attacked the Gaza Strip. Amira and Hani found themselves on both sides of the bar when it came to ideology. In the days when there was a significant rift between Arabs and Jews in the country.
"It was a very difficult time for us," says Amira.
"On May 18, we were scheduled for a meeting that we were very much looking forward to, but this day the Arab society was furious about Operation The Guardian. I told Hani that the meeting was super important, but that I was not emotionally available and asked not to work. Despite the complexity, Hani respected my decision." .
Hani says that during the operation she used to call Amira and ask how she was.
"I asked her a lot of questions - how does she see things happening, how does she behave. I realized that I do not necessarily agree with her way, and that I also do not have to agree. Each of us lives in a different worldview, and if we get into it, it will not turn out well. "To each other in the white of the eyes and we understood that we will not be able to solve the problems, so it is not worth getting into them."
A statement: "I would see that missiles were fired at Tel Aviv - and I immediately called Hani. Each of us told her own narrative, including the fears. There were violent incidents in the Galilee landscape as well, and I kept making sure to lock the door at home.
"For me, we are aiming for a goal. We need to know how to put these things aside. We are here to do good to our populations and to the State of Israel, and we must gallop forward, together.
"In Arab society, there is a tendency to want to integrate into Israeli society. To look for a partner, a partner. With the ultra-Orthodox, we have an alliance of the weak - and as evidence, Mansour Abbas wanted to set aside a special NIS 100 million budget for them.
Were you interested in entering politics in the future?
Hani: "I do not look for politics and do not think that women should be in politics. I have red lines, which I do not set but the rabbis, and I act according to them. However, it is important to note that public activity is of course a blessed thing. Welcome and welcome. "
Statement: "I'm not into politics either, let me work. There are very successful religious women with hijabs, and in Dubai, for example, there is an Arab Sarah. Anyone can make a change.
How did your families accept the partnership between you?
Statement: "They were a little weird at first, but everyone supports us."
Hani: "My family was a little surprised by the collaboration, but were not in shock. There was curiosity. In the end, they are used to me doing interesting things."
Are there still arguments between you, or have you learned to get along despite the cultural gaps?
Hani laughs: "There are no arguments between you and your wife? This partnership is in some ways almost like a family."
Statement: "You need to know how to choose a good partner."
Hani: "And I had the Dashmia faction to choose a good partner."
Statement: "It sounds like an appropriate phrase."
Do you feel that you have broken a glass ceiling? Have you paved the way for other women in your sectors?
Hani: "I do not like the words 'groundbreaking.' "They said she was brave and was seen as a role model, even if she was modest."
Statement: "There are many talented women in Arab society who come from far away. I am very proud of them. I may be a pioneer in Israel, one of the few, because it is not easy to build a startup in Israel, certainly not as an Arab. "People have more opportunities. There is a huge potential that is not talked about enough."
Hani: "In ultra-Orthodox society, too, the situation is similar in terms of potential. People enter the labor market, but they do not always have the right tools, so society is not advanced enough. They do not have language and skills, and here we enter with 'Job 360'.
"We want to preserve the uniqueness of the community, along with openness on both sides. Openness does not have to produce an 'evil instinct' and an option to spoil, it helps to be mentally flexible and make the necessary adjustments. The ultra-Orthodox society has grown, It will not look like a third world country. "
Do you know any other women who have done a similar collaboration to yours?
Statement: "I do not know of any more collaborations like ours. Unfortunately, people from our two cultures, who are very sectoral, only cooperate with an outside push."
Hani: "I understand why this is not happening. The stereotype is great about reality."
Statement: "We will bridge the gap between the Arabs and the Jews."
• • •
The two are now working intensively to realize the dream and make their venture a reality.
Two weeks ago, after receiving a grant and close accompaniment from an "exemplary country", each one left her workplace, and now they are completely devoting themselves to the new path.
The pilot of the venture, which was tested on a select group of people, has already been a success - and now they are preparing to launch the actual site, preparing for the big break.
Hani: "We had amazing responses to the pilot. One of the women who participated in the pilot said that preparing for a job interview on our platform gave her the confidence needed to get going. Another guy said he never participated in a job interview and did not know what it looked like - until he tried the platform. "A woman who has experienced the platform has already had a successful placement, and she has been hired in high-tech. We are reducing the built-in gap and allowing people to enter the labor market."
Statement: "We know both the barriers and the opportunities. There are high percentages of young Arab women who do not find work because they do not know how to conduct themselves, and so it is in the ultra-Orthodox world. I was hurt in the past by this gap, and now, with the platform, I want to fix it "And to promote our two populations. I wish we could go far, Amen, inshallah."
shishabat@israelhayom.co.il