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SPD leader Saskia Esken: "Nationwide school closings are no longer possible"
Photo: Christoph Hardt / Future Image / IMAGO
SPIEGEL:
Ms. Esken, the corona pandemic is overshadowing the start of the traffic light coalition.
So far, the SPD has ruled out a general compulsory vaccination.
Is she coming now?
Esken:
The fourth wave is dramatic and we have to fight it.
The debate about compulsory vaccination is different today than it was a year ago.
Back then there was no vaccine, now billions of people have received it.
We are currently talking about compulsory vaccination for facilities with particularly vulnerable people.
But I also do not rule out a general compulsory vaccination.
SPIEGEL:
Was it a mistake to do that so categorically?
Esken:
I never did that.
But we have to weigh that carefully and convince people to be vaccinated.
Many now want to be boosted.
Due to the current 2G rules, the run on the vaccination vehicles and the doctor's offices is intensified.
The acting Minister of Health Jens Spahn now urgently needs to take care of meeting the demand.
Anyone who is able to do so must vaccinate.
Dentists and pharmacists too
.
SPIEGEL:
The prime ministers of your party see it differently.
Esken:
It is important to note how we deal with special emergencies.
Very, very rarely do people react so violently to a vaccination that an emergency doctor has to be on the spot quickly.
We have to ensure this and offer vaccinations as low-threshold as possible.
SPIEGEL:
Despite all the measures, the number of infections is increasing.
The intensive care units are full.
How are you going to break the fourth wave?
Esken:
We have to take the virus more seriously again, keep more distance, wear more masks, ventilate more.
Everyone must reduce their contacts.
That is why we politicians will have to restrict private meetings again.
Those who have been vaccinated and those who have recovered are well protected from a severe course of the disease, but not from becoming infected and passing the virus on.
In this respect, we should also test them regularly again - that's called 2G-plus.
SPIEGEL:
Isn't it just a lockdown that will help in the end?
Esken:
We will have to massively restrict contacts.
The 2G or 2G-plus rules are available to the federal states for this purpose.
However, we are of the opinion that we should not send vaccinated people into lockdown, who obey all the rules and are considerate, in order to protect those who have not been vaccinated.
However, it is also clear that due to the current infection and hospitalization rates, further measures cannot be ruled out.
"Nationwide school closings are no longer possible."
SPIEGEL:
In the seven-point plan that Scholz presented yesterday, children did not play a role.
Do parents have to be prepared for daycare centers and schools to be closed again?
Esken:
Comprehensive closings are no longer possible under the new Infection Protection Act. All children suffer when schools are closed because they lack contact with their peers. Especially those who need special support in learning have fallen behind. That is why we absolutely want to avoid school closings. It is possible to react locally if there are infections in schools. I was also very happy about the approval of the vaccine for five to eleven year olds, now I hope that Stiko will recommend it as soon as possible, so that we can also protect the children with a vaccination.
SPIEGEL:
Karl Lauterbach is your party's corona expert, and in some cases he acts like a shadow health minister.
Will he soon be the official successor to Jens Spahn?
Esken:
Jens Spahn needed a lot of support in the pandemic, that was sort of supervised governance.
Karl Lauterbach is an excellent specialist who not only advised us, but also the Chancellor and the Prime Ministers intensively during the crisis, and was always loyal and focused on the matter at hand.
We are glad to have such a competent epidemiologist and health politician in our ranks.
SPIEGEL:
That wasn't an answer to our question.
Esken:
After the coalition negotiations are over, the SPD takes the time to give intensive advice on which personnel to go into the cabinet and the government with.
SPIEGEL:
Apparently, Karl Lauterbach is not so valued in the SPD that he is automatically the candidate for the Ministry of Health.
Why is that?
Esken:
I just ask for a little patience.
We want to announce a personnel board and not present one minister after another one by one.
There is always the risk of harming people.
SPIEGEL: The
FDP and the Greens have already clarified their position.
Why do you take longer?
Esken:
We have fully concentrated on the content in the past few weeks.
If the other parties are faster, that's fine.
You also have to order a smaller tableau.
SPIEGEL: In
Lars Klingbeil, you have a new party leader at your side.
What will your role be in the new constellation?
Esken:
My legislature also expires at the next federal party conference.
I'm really looking forward to competing as a top duo with Lars Klingbeil.
We have known each other well for a long time from our time together as digital politicians in the Bundestag.
In the past two years we have deepened our collaboration in new roles.
On the one hand, we want to further modernize the party and strengthen it as an independent political force.
On the other hand, we will take part in the coalition committee, which will meet monthly and will also contribute our ideas for government action.
SPIEGEL:
On Wednesday, a moment clouded the demonstrative harmony of the new traffic light.
At the presentation of the coalition agreement, Robert Habeck interrupted you as you were about to begin and gave Annalena Baerbock the floor.
what happened there?
Esken:
Apparently the agreement on the order in which we should speak was not clear to everyone.
That went back and forth before.
SPIEGEL:
So it was actually your turn?
Esken: It
doesn't really matter to me.
SPIEGEL:
Relations with the liberals seemed more relaxed.
FDP leader Christian Lindner raved about Olaf Scholz.
Has a new social-liberal love developed?
Esken:
I was very happy about Christian Lindner's speech because it reflects the approaching, trusting nature of our conversations.
For a long time we had very different roles, as a ruling party and as an opposition party.
That shapes.
Everyone had to find their new role: Greens and FDP from the opposition to the government, and the SPD from the junior to the leadership role.
Olaf Scholz found that the easiest.
Christian Lindner put it well.
We have all learned a lot and moved closer to each other, in the sense of: I want to understand what you mean when you present this opinion, which I previously found absurd.
SPIEGEL:
How has your personal view of the FDP changed?
Esken:
I have never seen the Liberals as a monolithic bloc.
Especially in digital politics and civil rights issues, we have a lot of things in common and we always got along well.
I worked a lot with Jimmy Schulz, who unfortunately is no longer alive, or Manuel Höferlin in the digital world, as well as with Konstantin Kuhle in domestic politics.
So it wasn't difficult for me.
"I've gotten into the habit of not taking it personally."
Saskia Esken on verbal attacks during the election campaign
SPIEGEL:
And since the coalition negotiations, have you been on good terms with Christian Lindner?
Esken:
Christian Lindner and I have been on first terms for a long time.
That came about early in the election campaign when it became clear that we will now have to deal with each other more often.
The other day he said: The two of us will soon be the last still sitting here as party leaders.
I found it interesting.
SPIEGEL:
For a long time you served the Liberals as a left wing bogeyman during the election campaign.
Esken:
Markus Söder, with whom I occasionally exchange text messages, made a similar statement.
I've gotten into the habit of not taking it personally.
SPIEGEL:
Are you actually still a party left?
Esken:
I think these categories are out of date.
The SPD is a left-wing people's party.
Actually, all members should define themselves as leftists.
SPIEGEL:
Some left-wing parties do not feel you are represented by you.
Have you forsaken the people who brought you into office?
Esken:
I don't even notice it that way.
The exploratory paper created a great deal of pressure to expect.
Now I can feel great satisfaction in the party with the coalition agreement.
The party is united and at rest as it has not for many years.
We won the Bundestag election and are appointing the next Federal Chancellor.
SPIEGEL:
Will Kevin Kühnert be the new SPD General Secretary?
Esken:
Kevin Kühnert is a very talented politician who is now taking on his role in the Bundestag like all 104 new parliamentary group members.
As far as the election of the presidium, i.e. also the general secretary, is concerned, Lars Klingbeil and I will develop a proposal in discussion with other managers in the next few days.