Ex-Siemens boss Kaeser praises the country life - and expresses a wish for Germany

Created: 01/01/2022Updated: 01/01/2022, 6:59 AM

Ex-Siemens boss Joe Kaeser looks back on his years at the company.

© -dpa / Sebastian Kahnert

Ex-Siemens boss Joe Kaeser speaks in an interview about his departure and the challenges that German politics and economy are currently facing.

Munich - Hardly any top manager is as open about social issues as Joe Kaeser.

The 64-year-old was head of the global Siemens corporation until February.

The

asked the Lower Bavaria how he was coping with the farewell - and wanted to know from him how well our country is prepared for the future.

So much in advance: "Germany", says Kaeser, "is one of the best countries in the world." 

Mr. Kaeser, you moved from Arnbruck in the Bavarian Forest into the wide world, Sepp became Joe.

How well do you still know your home country?

Do you have a few tips for excursions?

Joe Kaeser: There are many beautiful places, but I don't want to highlight any, otherwise I'll just get scolded ... We have the Glasdorf in Arnbruck - the Osser is also a wonderful destination.

The border used to go right through the Osserhütte: the Bierstüberl was, so to speak, in Bavaria, the Pilsnerstüberl was in what was then Czechoslovakia.

Today everyone is drawn to the city, what speaks for the country?

You now live in Munich, but Arnbruck is still your place of retreat.

Kaeser: You help each other. If someone doesn't leave the house for two days, then you look. I don't want to know how many people in town are lonely because they just don't have a social fabric. That is why the country also has a social, integrative component that urbanization does not always offer. If there is anything I would like for Bavaria and Germany, it would be that events become even more decentralized. This is a good method to strengthen social peace, to structurally pacify the threatening split in town and country.

Many citizens in Germany are afraid of the future, the challenges of digitization, the pace of globalization, social decline - you can look back on many challenges in your life: Do you have something for us that you would give us for the New Year ?

Kaeser: Above all, I would encourage people in Germany because we live in one of the very best places in the world. In a democratic and civilized society that knows what cohesion means. Overall, we are a wealthy country. We still have enough ideas and technology as well as entrepreneurship, especially in owner-managed, mostly medium-sized companies. We can assert ourselves in the world with innovations. This must not be forgotten. But: Of course, you can't just rest on your prosperity and what you have achieved. It seems to be in human nature over time to take things like social peace, civil security, a high level of prosperity and a health system that is generally intact as a matter of course. All thingswhich our parents worked for and for which large parts of the world envy us.

About the person: Joe Kaeser

Joe Kaeser, born in Arnbruck in the Bavarian Forest in 1957, comes from a simple background: the father was a factory worker, the mother a housewife.

After studying business administration in Regensburg, Kaeser started at Siemens in 1980 and had a steep career, including a stopover in the USA, where he became the boss of two Siemens subsidiaries, lived in Silicon Valley - and apparently looked to actor Tom Selleck ( "Magnum") oriented.

In 2006 Kaeser was appointed Chief Financial Officer, and in 2013 the Supervisory Board elected him as the Group's CEO, which he will lead until February of this year.

Today the top manager lives with his wife in Munich - and is head of the supervisory boards of Siemens energy and Daimler Truck Holding AG.

"The economic power of German companies is extremely strong"

Even if the health system now seems to be reaching its limit in the pandemic ...

Kaeser: But at the end of the day it protects us and helps everyone.

It would be easier if we all got vaccinated.

We have a rule of law that can be relied on.

Jurisdiction is separate from politics.

You don't have to go far to the east to see that it can be different.

I think we would do well if we use the time between the years to reflect on how we are in the world.

And that should give us courage.

You say the economic power of German companies ...

Kaeser: ... is extremely strong.

Of course, we are not the ones who have shone when it comes to the Internet.

But Germany is still a strong innovation country and, above all, has a craft that cannot be found anywhere in the world in this quality.

This also applies to the education system with dual training and some universities.

That is really encouraging ...

Kaeser: Yes, we really should have that.

Nevertheless, we have to continue to work hard, we mustn't become too lazy, take everything for granted and whenever something goes wrong, call the state straight away.

A plea for more personal responsibility?

Kaeser: Yes, absolutely.

But those who have tried really hard and still can no longer find their way should be able to rely on the protection of the state.

The state must safeguard human dignity, which is at the forefront of our constitution.

Joe Kaeser: "Everyone has to make a contribution, to get involved"

What are you thinking of specifically?

Kaeser: When people in Germany work hard and no longer earn their living with it or can no longer face their old age with dignity.

Then you should talk to each other about how we can do it better.

Does the minimum wage help?

Kaeser: From my point of view, that's going in the right direction - as emergency therapy.

What would be better?

Kaeser: To give the many people who belong to this low-wage group - there are almost eight million - through a more permeable education the opportunity to learn qualified professions.

If necessary, financed through redistribution.

In my opinion, the state also has the right to do so.

Could the unconditional basic income be a solution to ensure social integration?

You are supposed to be one of the proponents?

Kaeser: That was always attributed to me.

But for me it was always about dignified care in old age.

So I think we will not get around basic security.

Otherwise the term "unconditional" bothers me.

I say: everyone has to make a contribution, to get involved.

If, in spite of all efforts, he or she cannot keep up with the pace that Germany needs to keep pace with the world, then we must give these people the opportunity to live in dignity.

And then I'll be there with a basic income.

But not unconditionally.

How high should that be?

Kaeser: It depends on a lot of things.

In the country you might get by on 1,400 or 1,500 euros.

If you have to live near Munich, for example, because you might work in nursing there or in a job that is not so well paid, you won't get very far with 1,500 euros.

That is why it always depends on where these needy people should or have to live.

"There are often situations where a grassroots democratic order no longer leads"

You are an expert in change processes.

You have rebuilt Siemens and completely reorganized it for the future. What can politics learn from Siemens?

Can you run a country like a business enterprise?

Kaeser: That's a good question.

I don't think you can compare that.

I will also give you an example: When you run a company, a good board member is naturally also out to bring as many people as possible with you, to seek consensus - because codetermination is a very important asset of an intact social market economy.

But there are often situations where a grassroots democratic order no longer leads - mostly when the point is no longer just to develop the past, but to build something fundamentally new to secure the future.

That's exciting - can you explain that?

Kaeser: There are moments when leadership also requires a clear statement: I'll do it now and take it on my own responsibility! Just like at Siemens. I am relatively certain that if the almost 400,000 colleagues around the world had voted based on grassroots democracy, the transformation of Siemens AG would have been rejected. I'm not even quite sure whether the top 50 executives would have given me a majority in a secret ballot. But that shouldn't be blamed either. The change was huge - also for each individual. Today, looking back, we can say: You see, that was correct. Companies are doing better than ever before. If you add up the three Siemens companies, then stock market valuations come out today that have never been done before. Siemens health technology alone,which was always a small but fine marginal phenomenon in the group, is now worth more as a company on the stock exchange than such well-known brands as BMW, Bayer or BASF. Of course, it's easy to talk afterwards: We did everything great. In the company, you can also legitimize lonely decisions retrospectively through success. But that's not possible in politics. Therefore, governing in a democracy works differently than running a company.Therefore, governing in a democracy works differently than running a company.Therefore, governing in a democracy works differently than running a company.

"For fundamental transformations you usually need more than three or four years"

How so?

Kaeser: If the federal government does not get a majority in the coalition, a Federal Chancellor cannot simply say, despite the authority to issue guidelines: Fine, I can hear you, but I'll do it anyway.

You will see that the success proves me right.

Without majorities, you will not be successful at all.

That is a great burden that politics has.

It has to be much more geared towards integrating opinions and compromises - and often has too little time.

Because the terms are so short?

Kaeser: Yes, fundamental transformations usually take more than three or four years.

I became CEO in 2013 and basically you didn't see until 2020/21, so just in time (laughs) how successful it all had become.

If I had to stand for election as CEO after three or four years in the middle of the restructuring, who knows whether I would then have been re-elected.

What counts in corporate management today?

Kaeser: Long-term success - and not just profit.

In the USA, the motto used to be: The Business of Business is Business, which means: The manager's only job is to ensure that the company's profit and thus the value for shareholders - i.e. shareholder value - increase .

People stay out of society and politics.

That has changed fundamentally.

Without employees, without customers, there is no shareholder value.

Without a workforce there are no products, without customers there is no employment.

In addition, society is playing an increasingly important role as the fourth stakeholder group.

Society has an interest in what companies do.

And do the products have added value for society?

And?

Kaeser: It depends on the company.

At Siemens companies, yes: Healthineers save lives, Siemens Energy provides electricity and heat and the new Siemens AG makes working life more productive and sustainable.

These things would be lacking in the general public.

Should Facebook no longer exist, the world would remain largely healthy, with reliable electricity and sustainable infrastructure.

Does that mean that companies can determine the course of companies?

Kaeser: You should have a say in how successful companies develop.

The question of what companies do for society is definitely becoming increasingly important.

I'm going so far as to say that in democracies it is society that grants the license to do business.

But then the management is responsible for the success.

Keyword stock market .... Can you still remember how you earned your first money?

Kaeser: I delivered newspapers.

Today that would be a criminal offense, because back then I was still a child ... When I got older, the main thing was to earn real money as quickly as possible: You could do that in construction.

What was your job

Kaeser: I was allowed to do the work the Germans didn't want to do with a colleague from Turkey - back then they said guest workers.

For example, poke holes in concrete ceilings with a jackhammer.

Joe Kaeser: "I bought bell bottoms with my first wage"

What did you do with your wages?

Kaeser: I bought clothes.

Clothes like those worn by the coolest in class.

Back then, they were bell-bottoms, they had to go over the shoes and were then frayed to 360 degrees.

They were expensive.

And I bought two of them right away.

How was that commented at home?

Kaeser: My grandmother just said: "Wouldn't have done one too ..."

And how was it when you got your first salary as CEO?

Do you take a closer look at the statement?

Kaeser (smiles): The first time you look very carefully because the amounts - including the deductions, including the church tax - change significantly.

Her annual salary was several million euros.

Kaeser: Material security is, of course, something luxurious that you have to be grateful for.

But personal fulfillment then comes more from what you achieve with the company and not from what you have amassed in terms of assets.

At the beginning of the year you gave up responsibility as CEO.

How big is the change for you?

Kaeser: Noticeably, because you are no longer in the limelight and have to make sure that things go on every day.

And my calendar is much more self-determined now.

I was able to let go easier than I and, above all, many others would have ever thought.

Do you sleep better?

Kaeser: No, I was always able to sleep anywhere at any time.

Thank God.

Otherwise the time differences would have worn me down on my many trips.

You have met business partners and politicians in more than 200 countries - how were you perceived as a Siemens boss or as a Bavarian?

Kaeser: That depends on the economic region.

But you are initially perceived as a Siemens boss - that is, as the boss of a global company that employs people all over the world and that somehow - at least in the past - does everything.

Interestingly, many still believe that home appliances are one of the largest divisions.

But that's no longer Siemens, but Bosch.

They only have trademark rights.

Then it matters that Siemens is based in Germany.

And Germany has a great reputation.

What does that matter?

Kaeser: Much of the reputation was influenced by Angela Merkel.

I can well remember when she seemed physically ailing.

One of the first questions I asked was everywhere: How is the Chancellor?

The world took care of that because it stood as a guarantor for the cohesion of Europe.

"Munich is more familiar to many than Bavaria"

How do you think about Bavaria?

Kaeser: Munich is more familiar to many than Bavaria.

The Chancellor - and Bayern Munich, those were often topics of conversation.

Many Bavarians are passionate about playing Schafkopf, you too?

Kaeser: Yes - and also like skat.

But in Bavaria, of course, mostly Schafkopf is played.

At what tariffs?

Kaeser: A game costs 20 cents, the upper 10, the solo 50. It's not really about the money.

But three to four euros can come together ...

Kaeser: It must hurt a bit ... (laughs)

When is the next round?

Kaeser: It's not that easy now because of the pandemic, but with 2G-plus it might be possible for us to play a round.

New Year's Eve is just around the corner, how are you celebrating?

With friends and firecrackers?

Kaeser: Not guaranteed with firecrackers, that's forbidden, but I've never been a big hit friend either.

And besides, the time is simply not there.

Thousands of people will be in hospitals, many will fight for their lives.

This is not the time to let the firecrackers crack, this is the time to think back.

What do you think of in 2021?

Kaeser: How terrible a pandemic can be, how natural disasters destroy entire livelihoods, but also how orderly, fair and democratic a change of government can take place.

In addition, there is gratitude - that you are healthy, that you have children and grandchildren who make you happy.

Interview: Wolfgang de Ponte