Exclusive: Söder explains momentous "Corona lessons" - "Don't just look at the situation from a virological point of view"

Created: 01/16/2022, 11:14 am

By: Mike Schier, Christian Deutschlaender, Georg Anastasiadis

Bavaria's Prime Minister Markus Söder (CSU).

© Sven Hoppe/dpa

In an interview, Markus Söder talks about his new approach in the fight against Corona, the dispute over wind power and his relationship with the CDU.

Mr. Söder, are you personally afraid of Corona, afraid of Omicron?

Markus Söder

: I'm worried.

But not for myself, but for those who have the least protection: people with previous illnesses, small children and, above all, unvaccinated people.

That's the paradox in this pandemic: that we're trying to protect many who don't want to be protected at all.

According to the experts, anyone who gets vaccinated and boosted will probably experience a milder course at Omikron.

At Omikron, the number of infections is exploding, and at the same time hope is growing: Hooray, we'll soon be through.

Is that deceptive?

Söder

: We have to keep a very close eye on the situation over the next two weeks.

So far, experts have been telling us that there are fewer patients in the hospitals and a milder course.

Omicron is not Delta.

That means: We have to adjust precisely which rules are absolutely necessary, but also proportionate.

We want to bring “Team Caution” and “Team Awareness” together.

You're not the strictest anymore.

The Greens say: They are now "Team carelessness".

Söder

: The Greens say something different every day.

Discos open, discos closed, culture open, culture closed, schools open, schools closed - the Greens are the "Team Contradiction"

Bavaria and Corona: Söder no longer wants to “just look at the situation virologically”

So what?

The Söder is now different than in 2021.

Söder

: I thought about the turn of the year for a long time, had a lot of conversations - privately and politically - and also learned deep lessons from these two Corona years. Now, especially at Omikron, we need a broader approach. It will no longer be sufficient to only look at the situation from a medical and virological point of view. We must also pay more attention to the societal and social component. Our society is not divided into two equal parts, but it is divided. A small group of lateral thinkers with very abstruse arguments, a large group of very cautious people, but also some who have followed all the rules but are exhausted and tired and are beginning to doubt the sense of some regulations.

Are you happy to step out of your role as a rampant prohibitor?

Söder

: It's not about pushing ahead.

In some questions we are more consistent than any other country, FFP2 obligation, curfew or disco closure because it is simply necessary.

But the truth is: Nobody can draw political capital from Corona - neither with the extremely libertarian nor with the hard restrictive approach.

The entire country just hopes that it will finally be over at some point.

We need to realize that society expects more from us than just making new regulations every day.

In the future we will have to justify what we do in a more precise and understandable way.

Specifically: What does that mean for the rules?

No more hotspot lockdown at incidence 1000?

Söder

: The hotspot rules helped us in the dark weeks when the hospitals were full.

Now the situation at Omikron is different: stronger infection, but milder courses.

Therefore, a lockdown at an incidence of 1000 would be disproportionate.

According to the Minister of Health, the value must be significantly higher and linked to the load on the intensive care units.

Omikron: Söder is thinking about loosening up for culture and football

The culture complains about the 25 percent capacity limit.

Is there leeway?

Söder

: Definitely in the medium term.

50 percent are conceivable, i.e. seating in a checkerboard pattern.

But let's keep an eye on how Omikron is developing and whether the number of patients remains largely stable despite rising incidences.

The industry grumbles that the culture muffle Söder doesn't care, he never goes to the theater anyway.

Does that apply to you?

Söder

: The Free State of Bavaria does more for culture than almost any other state, and we are proud of that - because we need a diverse cultural landscape.

The following applies to the entire pandemic: Everyone is complaining and understandably everyone sees their situation and industry first.

In my life I have probably been to a stadium more often than to the State Opera.

But nobody is currently allowed to go to the stadium, at least 25 percent are allowed to go to the opera.

We always act to the best of our knowledge and belief.

When will the spectator ban in the stadium fall?

Söder

: Certainly not in the short term in view of the increasing number of omicrons, but we are also thinking in the medium term.

We will discuss that together with the Bundesliga.

In the meantime, by the way, it would be good if the league reviewed its rules – especially in the case of Corona cases.

At FC Bayern, we saw that this can lead to situations that distort competition.

Medium-term, medium-term – be more specific, please!

Söder

: We have the next prime ministers' conference on January 24th.

This is a good time to discuss this.

Spain already rates Omikron as normal flu, tests less.

Is that a role model?

Söder

: No, not yet.

Because Spain has a significantly higher vaccination rate – the crucial difference.

The vaccination gap is still too big for us.

Is compulsory vaccination for everyone still appropriate at Omikron?

Ethics Council, Stiko and many politicians have long since moved away from this...

Söder

: The obligation to vaccinate is not only related to Omikron.

We also want to be able to overcome all future mutations - get out of this corona endless loop and finally have more freedom again.

freedom through duty?

Söder

: Freedom used to be a term that was politically more left-wing.

Today it is more bourgeois in character.

Even before Corona, many middle-class people felt patronized and restricted by bureaucracy and state regulations.

Therefore, in Bavaria in particular, as a free state, we need a new promise of freedom towards more personal responsibility and independence.

We want to live free and carefree from Corona again.

Unfortunately, this can only be done through vaccination, and therefore this one duty is better than hundreds of individual rules and regulations in all areas of life.

Corona crisis in Bavaria - Söder: "Not everyone who is skeptical is a corona denier"

When you look at the Corona demos - what do you feel there?

Anger?

Worries?

Söder

: Everyone has the right to express their opinion. We will never ban that. At these demos, however, different groups gather. The far-right scene – trying to destabilize our democracy. We must take action against this: Hatred and hate speech must be combated and conspiracy channels such as Telegram must be blocked. It is also used by people who we can hardly reach anymore because they are caught up in their conspiracy theories. But we have to try harder for another group: people who simply walk along, feeling insecure and weighed down. We need to talk to them again. Because not everyone who is skeptical is a corona denier, conspiracy theorist or right-wing radical. Listening more is the first step to healing.

If Corona really lets us go: what will be the biggest projects in 2022?

Attack on the traffic light?

Söder

: We will take a very close look at how the traffic lights work.

Obviously, Bavaria does not have a high status in this government - there are no longer any Bavarian federal ministers.

I hope that the old Schröder sentence doesn't apply: only stones instead of bread for Bavaria.

No Bavarian politician from the FDP, Greens or SPD was apparently qualified enough for a ministerial post in Berlin.

We as the CSU and as the state government are the sole contact and advocate for Bavarian interests.

How flashy does the CSU want to be as the Berlin opposition?

Söder

: Not shrill, but clear and constructive.

The situation is different now.

We no longer have to be Berlin's compromise machine, but can represent our politics consistently and purely.

Specifically: We must stop the spiral of inflation and price increases and need financial stability instead of new debt.

As a liberal-conservative center force, we will also oppose the traffic light coalition's educational guidelines: what we should eat and how we should talk.

We fight against the legalization of drugs and for the protection of unborn life.

Our core competencies are: economy, stability, internal security, common sense.

Very friendly: Söder and Merz last week at their meeting in the Bad Tölz-Wolfratshausen district.

© Peter Kneffel/dpa

Söder talks about Habeck's visit: "Of course, the hospitality is friendly.

Nevertheless ..."

Habeck is coming to Bavaria next week.

How frosty do you receive the green climate minister?

soder

: Politeness is part of the Bavarian charm. Of course, the State Chancellery offers friendly hospitality. Nevertheless, we will present our positions. These include concerns about inflation and skyrocketing energy prices. The climate issue must not become a social issue. Therefore, rising energy prices have to be offset by higher commuter allowances and lower electricity taxes. There is no traffic light concept for this. There is a risk of a massive power outage and the risk of a blackout is increasing. Because Bavaria, as the economically strongest state, needs more energy. Digitization and electromobility are growing faster here than in the north. At the same time, current energy sources such as nuclear energy and coal are no longer available, there is no plan for gas and it will take time to completely replace them with renewable energies.

You still don't want to overturn the 10H distance rule for wind power.

Söder

: Bavaria is at the top for every renewable energy - except for the wind.

Baden-Württemberg is also at the top when it comes to every form of renewable energy – except for wind.

Schleswig-Holstein, on the other hand, lags behind when it comes to many renewable energies – except for the wind.

So this is not due to 10H, but to the topography.

I will present our energy plan to the Federal Minister for Economic Affairs.

In essence, this means: Strengthening strengths, not making everything the same and not just looking at Bavaria through North German glasses.

Our potentials are sun, water and geothermal energy.

What's stopping you from taking advantage of this?

Söder

: The federal government regulates the funding system.

The Greens in Berlin and Bavaria now want to weaken nature conservation in wind power in favor of climate protection.

If that applies, then this also applies to hydropower.

In Bavaria we have enormous expansion potential for pumped storage power plants.

The demands on Berlin also include: A plan for hydrogen pipelines for all of Germany must be developed.

Similar to how it used to be with oil.

So far there is only one plan for northern Germany from Norway.

The same is needed for southern Germany from Italy or North Africa.

In terms of wind, that means: So you don't give up 10H voluntarily?

Söder

: The federal government can abolish 10H in the Federal Building Code.

That's why not a single wind turbine will be built yet.

Two percent of the state area for wind power is about 200,000 soccer fields in all parts of Bavaria.

Especially in Upper Bavaria, the landscape would be massively affected by such dimensions.

I remain skeptical.

Let's look at the CDU.

You recently met with Friedrich Merz, according to the pictures a very tidy meeting...

Söder

: We will work very well together.

We also both know that we must not repeat 2021 as a Union.

Because the Bayern election 2023 will fail you...

Söder

: Because the Union as a whole benefits from it.

The CSU can be a maximum of eight to ten points above the average of the Union nationwide.

That's why we have a fundamental interest in the CDU becoming stronger again.

If desired, I will be happy to help in the CDU election campaigns and do everything to ensure that we are united again.

Do we hear a hint of remorse for your harsh criticism of Laschet and the dispute last year?

Söder

: The whole thing was indeed not a happy situation, and we made mistakes too.

But we learn from it and do better.

Then you can now say clearly: your new friend Friedrich will be the next candidate for chancellor.

Söder

: It is clear to me: I am Prime Minister in Bavaria and not the leader of the opposition in Berlin.

Should Merz become Union faction leader and replace Brinkhaus?

Söder

: The parliamentary group decides that.

I hope for a good agreement.

However, a party leader normally has the first right of access.

Interview: Georg Anastasiadis, Christian Deutschländer, Mike Schier