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Bundestag in Berlin:
Around 5,000 professional lobbyists have to register in the lobby register
Photo: HAYOUNG JEON/EPA
manager magazin: Mr Bäumer, the new lobby register started in Germany on January 1st. What is that?
All organizations, companies, associations, consulting firms or NGOs must register digitally with the Bundestag if they wish to speak to members of the Bundestag, ministry officials or department heads in the future.
You have to enter who is lobbying with what goals, who is speaking to whom and, above all, what financial resources are being used for lobbying.
You and your allies fought for this law for 15 years. Why did this take so long?
It was essentially the conservative parties who blocked themselves here despite years of debate.
If the affairs about the masks and the activities of Philipp Amthor hadn't happened just before the federal election, the CDU and CSU would probably still not have moved.
Now, however, the public pressure was too great.
So far there are relatively few entries in the register. Are you worried?
No.
This is still possible until March 1st.
There are also other registrations, but it always takes a while before they are published.
The lobby register is a great idea, but as with any innovation, it takes a little time to get up and running at first.
Are all companies aware that you have to register there?
I know of many large companies that were already looking at the lobby register in November and December.
These are now ready to make their entries or have already done so.
If you are just starting to deal with it, you have to get used to it quickly, because the topic should not be underestimated.
Why?
It's not easy to tell how much money a company spends on lobbying.
Smaller companies have it relatively easy.
There is person X, for example, who spends around 50 percent of their working hours on lobbying and earns sum Y per year, from which an amount can be quickly calculated.
It gets a bit more complicated for large companies.
If a CEO there has several meetings a year, what percentage of his work force does that account for exactly?
This can then no longer be determined for many of those involved without a certain amount of effort.
However, calculations that are accurate to the cent are not expected here either, the entries are intended to give a plausible and comprehensible overview of the expenditure of interest groups.
How could this be solved?
It would be good if the Bundestag administration offered a scheme, for example for specifying financial expenses.
So much depends on the individual assessment of the protagonists.
In the end, this could jeopardize the comparability of the individual figures.
We are now gathering experience to see what has proven itself in practice and where exactly technical improvements should be made.
It sounds as if the federal government has to do it again.
Yes, the law needs to be revised.
The coalition has now also announced that this should happen by the summer break.
The regulations were passed relatively quickly by the old federal government, you can tell.
In addition, important points for real transparency are missing.
There are many unanswered questions, and industry associations and consumer protection groups are pushing for improvements together with us in the "Alliance for Lobby Transparency".
Where are the neuralgic points?
For example, the legislative footprint is missing: which lobbyist advertised to whom and for what?
Who worked on which law?
The first drafts of laws are usually drawn up in the departments, but contacts at this – lower-ranking – level do not have to be mentioned in the lobby register.
According to the coalition agreement of the new government, however, this should be changed.
We also call for an independent lobby officer who should review the listings and report regularly publicly, similar to the data protection officer.
A number of organizations are not required to register. How do you see it?
Employers' associations, trade unions, churches and local authority associations have so far in fact been excluded from the lobby register.
Some of the employers' associations now even want to implement the new regulations voluntarily.
But the unions are afraid of having to disclose their strike funds and rely on collective bargaining autonomy.
And the churches - one of the largest employers in the country - argue with freedom of religion.
That's the wrong way, it leads to a two-class right in lobbying - and thwarts the actual goals.
What do you mean?
The lobby register is an element that promotes democracy: the citizens should regain lost trust in the legislation and the independence of the ministries and that can only be done through transparency - on the part of the lobbyists, the federal government and the parliament.
How many lobbyists are there anyway in Berlin?
According to estimates, there are up to 5,000 people.
However, this number is ambiguous as there are and will continue to be many gray areas once the Lobby Register is in place.
How do you estimate the amount of the possible fines? The maximum amount of 50,000 euros should hardly deter some large corporations.
Many companies have known, at least since scandals such as Dieselgate or Cum-Ex, how important this transparency is.
The vast majority therefore supports the lobby register and would like to show the public that they work transparently.
The fines hardly hurt big companies, that's true.
But there will also be a "blacklist" so that you will no longer be invited to hearings and statements.
The damage to your image should not be underestimated either if it turns out that information was wrong or missing.
Because the register is public, anyone can see it and report potential violations.