After Putin's Ukraine attack: Röttgen admits surprise at "Lanz" to Scholz-"Hammer"

Created: 03/02/2022, 10:22 am

The talk show on “Markus Lanz” (ZDF).

© ZDF (Screenshot)

What is Putin up to in Ukraine?

The "Markus Lanz" guests puzzle over the future, Interior Minister Faeser comments on the reception of refugees.

Hamburg – The “Markus Lanz”* group discusses the situation in the Ukraine conflict* on Tuesday evening (March 1).

Political scientist Margarete Klein summarizes at the beginning: Things are not going as planned for Vladimir Putin, there are logistical problems and the Russian army is not professional enough.

The resistance of the Ukrainians was also underestimated.

The military expert Carlo Masala nods at Klein's remarks, and talk show host Lanz adds that many of the Russian soldiers state that they do not know their mission objective.

"How believable is that?" asks the host.

"It can't be ruled out," says Masala.

Many of the soldiers have only been in the Russian army for a short time, which has had to deal with deserters.

In order to prevent "these people from jumping off their pegs," Masala suspects, the Russian operations management could have sent the young soldiers into alleged maneuvers "under false pretenses".

Putin's war in Ukraine - military expert Masala on "Markus Lanz" on Russia's strategy: "shoot everything that's there"

Although the blitzkrieg in Ukraine planned by Putin is no longer possible, Klein explains that nothing has changed in terms of his goals.

The political scientist translates “demilitarization and denazification” as follows: “A nation no longer capable of self-defense” with a “pro-Russian puppet government”.

Politician Norbert Röttgen (CDU) believes that this is the objective situation.

He comments unequivocally on the images displayed from the city of Kharkiv: "It seems that the phase of the war of destruction and annihilation has now begun." Because this is also directed against the civilian population, Röttgen speaks of war crimes that have only just begun .

Masala agrees that Putin is acting like Russia in the first Chechen war or Assad in Syria.

The motto is: "Shoot everything that is there and demoralize the Ukrainians."

You can read more about the latest reports on the Ukraine war in our news ticker.

Ukraine war as a topic in "Markus Lanz": Putin underestimated the Ukrainians

Masala explains that Putin's further strategy is controversial among experts, for example whether he will attack Kyiv directly or not.

However, the Ukrainian capital will be surrounded in any case, after all important elements of the army and the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyj are there.

The sociologist Gerald Knaus agrees that Putin's actions remind him of colonial wars such as the French in Algeria.

There, too, everything was reduced to rubble and ashes, and yet a common identity failed.

It's the same with Putin: He's subject to a Ukrainian identity that he assumed didn't even exist.

"Markus Lanz" - these were his guests on March 1st:

• Nancy Faeser (SPD*)

  – politician

• Norbert Röttgen (CDU*)

  – politician

• Margarete Klein

  – political scientist

• Gerald Knaus

  - Sociologist

• Carlo Masala

  - Military Expert

Because the Ukraine war is causing people to flee to Western Europe, host Lanz then asks the Federal Minister of the Interior, Nancy Faeser (SPD), who was connected via video, about the Federal Government's plans to meet this challenge.

At EU level, a joint decision had been made to grant Ukrainian refugees a one-year residence permit throughout Europe, which could be extended.

"It's now about alleviating the suffering of the people," she says.

Faeser explains when asked by the moderator that she cannot currently say anything about the numbers to be expected for Germany.

According to the UNHCR, there are around half a million Ukrainian refugees in the neighboring countries of Ukraine, so far 5,000 people have been registered in Germany.

Faeser does not want to know anything about an upper limit: “We will take in those who come to Germany.

I think that is our humanitarian obligation.”

Chancellor Scholz equips the Bundeswehr – who knew what in the SPD?

The Minister of the Interior welcomed the announced 100 billion budget for the Bundeswehr: “The world has been different since Thursday.

So now it's a different requirement.

It is definitely right to set up a special fund now to strengthen the Bundeswehr. ”But talk show host Lanz is aiming for the decision of Chancellor Olaf Scholz* (SPD), did Faeser know about this in advance?

She wasn't surprised, but the agreement was tight, she says in monosyllables.

"Would you have agreed if the parliamentary group had spoken?" asks the well-informed host, referring to the pacifist tradition in parts of the SPD.

"It's a real paradigm shift," says Lanz.

Faeser answers with the same urgency why she supports the Chancellor's change of direction, also in terms of arms deliveries to Ukraine: "We have had a real turning point since Thursday."

The Bundeswehr the necessary leverage?

"Markus Lanz" round sees diplomacy at its limits

"My jaw dropped," admits military expert Masala of his reaction to the Chancellor's 100 billion decision.

He thinks the decision is “very right”, but warns that the Bundeswehr cannot be whipped into shape with money alone.

He also speaks out against the reintroduction of conscription, so as not to invest the money solely in the training of conscripts.

Röttgen also did not expect the Chancellor's announcement: "I was part of the complete surprise.

I thought to myself: man, that's awesome!"

Röttgen says that Scholz has recognized the seriousness of the situation and is referring to his policy competence over the SPD parliamentary group.

Despite her approval of the increased Bundeswehr budget, Faeser finds that diplomacy has served well in recent decades, whereupon Masala and Lanz vigorously object.

"All major crises" have shown, says Masala, "that sometimes aggressors can only be stopped with military power."

He cites the wars in Bosnia and Afghanistan as an example, saying that there are "hardly any" diplomatic successes to show for them.

Ukraine: Faeser insists on peaceful diplomacy in “Markus Lanz”.

“It is always worth finding peaceful solutions.

I'm sticking to it now," says Faeser.

Röttgen tries to mediate.

Of course, diplomatic solutions are to be preferred, but "in the world we are in" the West is confronted with an aggressive Russia policy.

In order to be able to rely on diplomacy in such a situation, a country's ability to defend itself is a prerequisite.

This is currently not guaranteed in Germany.

Afterwards, moderator Lanz would like to know from the Minister of the Interior how Germany is dealing with the issue of disinformation and cyber warfare.

Faeser says the government has this form of warfare "closely in view" and that the security authorities are "very well positioned".

Masala points out that a well-trained civilian population is also necessary for an efficient defense against disinformation.

Only if there is a high level of media competence in society as a whole can one efficiently defend oneself together with the classic military in modern wars, Masala warns: “It is defensive in the 21st century: we have to think of it as an overall complex and also act in an overall complex .”

"Markus Lanz" - The conclusion of the show

"Markus Lanz" on Tuesday evening is all about Putin's war in Ukraine.

Politician Nancy Faeser (SPD), who joined the video, tries to balance the Chancellor's decision on 100 billion euros for the Bundeswehr and the appeal for peaceful diplomacy.

Talkmaster Markus Lanz gallops through the topics, from Putin's plans to conscription in Germany, the group around the political scientist Margarete Klein, the politician Norbert Röttgen (CDU), the sociologist Gerald Knaus and the military expert Carlo Masala touches on the (war) relevant topics of the hour .