FIGAROVOX. - On the eve of the presidential election, you publish a new edition of your book,
The great duels that made France
, increased by a chapter on that of 2016-2017 between François Hollande and Emmanuel Macron.
Rather than an overhanging story, is it the story of men and passions that you have decided to highlight?
Jean-Christophe BUISSON. -
We think indeed, to use a famous formula, that it is indeed men who make history... even if they don't know what history they are making!
No doubt the great economic, climatic or social movements have their role in the march of the world, but the decisive element is always man, in the end.
And man, however rational he may be or seek to be, remains the plaything of the passions.
That is to say ambitions, rivalries, jealousies, hatreds, fears.
The return of the tragedy that we have been witnessing for a few days in Eastern Europe also reminds us that
"man is a wolf for man
(Hobbes).
Always more inclined to make war on his neighbor than to seek to build a relationship made up of love, peace and fraternity without shadow.
Like religion, politics aims to channel this natural tendency, which the blissful Rousseauists refute, and thus to avoid a permanent war of all against all.
But it keeps popping up and popping up again.
Including in this form called the duel.
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From Louis XII and Charles the Bold, to the Pétain-de Gaulle tragedy, to the Macron-Holland betrayal: what do all these duels have in common?
They show how much History is above all a theatre.
With its decorations: the Courts of the Old Regime, the assemblies of elected officials, the scullery of the headquarters of political parties, the television sets.
Its well-defined characters: the naive Marie de Médicis and the calculating Richelieu;
the crafty Talleyrand and the rough Fouché;
the flamboyant Clemenceau and the dull Poincaré;
the soft Hollande and the determined Macron.
Its incredible developments: the arrest of Fouquet on the orders of Louis XIV;
the break between Pétain and de Gaulle, who for a long time maintained an almost filial relationship;
the surprising Chirac-Mitterrand pact of May 1981;
the execution of Danton with the blessing of Robespierre;
the Clearstream affair.
Without forgetting his replicas that one would sometimes think came out of
a play by Molière, Racine or Shakespeare!
Remember the words of the Chouan giant Georges Cadoudal after his meeting with Bonaparte:
“What a desire I had to smother this little man between my two arms!
»
Or of Clemenceau on Poincaré:
« Poincaré belongs to the generation of the made Republic which had for concern only to settle there »
.
Or this dialogue between François Mitterrand and Michel Rocard in May 1991: Mitterrand: “
We have to deal with the problem of rumors of reshuffles.
– I quite agree, Mr President.
“So you will give me your resignation after the Council of Ministers”.
We are often dealing with fratricidal duels, in the sometimes primary sense of the term – which brings us back to those, founders of our civilization, of Abel and Cain or Remus and Romulus.
Jean-Christophe Buisson
Do the issues always have such a resounding significance in terms of history?
We certainly cannot compare with those of the past the contemporary duels, which often take place with speckled foils, only make symbolic victims and do not upset French society in depth.
Even if their mechanics are identical, the Chaban-Pompidou, Balladur-Chirac, Copé-Fillon and Hollande-Valls disputes seem very anecdotal compared to those of previous centuries.
Some of them, however sometimes born of simple quarrels of pride, had immense consequences.
The victory of Louis XI over Charles the Bold more or less put an end to feudalism in France.
The assassination of the Duke of Guise on the orders of Henri III meant the end of the political illusions of ultra Catholics dreaming of seizing the throne of France.
The setting
Marie de Medici's deviation in favor of Richelieu during Dupes' Day committed the country to a long and costly war against Spain and the Habsburgs.
Behind the red curtain of the theater unfolds a real political reality.
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What do you think is the most mythical duel in history?
To be honest, none of these Franco-French duels have the dimension of those that opposed Alexander the Great and the king of Persian kings Darius, Napoleon I and Alexander I or Hitler and Churchill.
In our latitudes, it is more a question of weakening or eliminating an adversary from the political scene than of bringing him to his knees or totally destroying him.
Perhaps because the protagonists often have many common values and convictions, when they are not from the same family!
We are often dealing with fratricidal duels, in the sometimes primary sense of the term – which brings us back to those, founders of our civilization, of Abel and Cain or Remus and Romulus.
We can think that fighting a rival of his family (even if it is only political) attenuates by a few degrees the hatred that
one can experience for him.
So the violence of his actions against him.
After all, de Gaulle refused that Pétain, sentenced to death, be executed... And the winner of the duel in the second round of the next presidential election will not throw his opponent into jail.
The events unfolding in Ukraine remind us precisely how necessary the enemy is to build a common history that often exists only in rhetoric and pious hopes.
Jean-Christophe Buisson
Today, do we still have a sense of confrontation?
The confrontation, the duel, does not have a good press.
He is not very "citizen", makes fun of global warming and participatory democracy, despises collective movements, closes his eyes to systemic racism, tears the social contract to pieces, superbly ignores the common good and the republic .
Above all, it suggests that violence can solve a problem when faced with an enemy.
But the events unfolding in Ukraine remind us precisely how necessary the enemy is to build a common history that often exists only in rhetoric and pious hopes.
Thanks to Vladimir Putin, Volodymyr Zelensky has become the hero of a nation that no longer wanted him, Emmanuel Macron is experiencing a undoubtedly unexpected resurgence in popularity and Europe is becoming something other than a socio-economic space!
Suddenly, we hear less of the sellers of globalized obligatory happiness, the followers of systematic benevolence and those for whom the use of a qualifying adjective has the allure of a stigmatization in good and due form.
Against the Russian Bear, the Care Bears have gone into hibernation.
The real has just come back in force in our weightless world,
disconnected from reality by being ultra-connected to technology, to the virtual.
And the real indeed carries violence, confrontation, like the clouds carry the rain.
As for the naive ones who considered these notions as obsolete and accused those who used them of being sowers of useless hatred refusing to live in a vast “peaceful zone”, here they are served.
Local, national or international, real or symbolic, personal or collective, I believe that the duel still has a bright future ahead of it...
to be sowers of useless hatred refusing to live in a vast “peaceful zone”, here they are served.
Local, national or international, real or symbolic, personal or collective, I believe that the duel still has a bright future ahead of it...
to be sowers of useless hatred refusing to live in a vast “peaceful zone”, here they are served.
Local, national or international, real or symbolic, personal or collective, I believe that the duel still has a bright future ahead of it...
The great duels that made France, edited by Alexis Brézet and Jean-Christophe Buisson, Perrin, January 27, 2022, 415 p., €22 LE FIGARO MAGAZINE - PERRIN