"Very shameful for us": Challenger attacks President Jair Bolsonaro

Created: 03/29/2022, 14:19

By: Lisa Kuner, Jens Kiffmeier, Mark Stoffers, Felix Busjaeger

The Brazilian pre-presidential candidate Sergio Moro in conversation with kreiszeitung.de.

© Matthias Udwardi

Sergio Moro wants to be president of Brazil.

Brazil's most famous corruption hunter builds on his past and attacks Bolsonaro in an interview.

Hamburg – On average, over 2,000 deaths per day, corrupt politicians and a president who stubbornly resisted corona protection measures.

Brazil is not only the largest country in South America, but is also currently in the midst of the corona pandemic and corruption holes, which also affected President Jair Bolsonaro* last year.

Despite the scandals, he wants to secure another term this year.

While Bolsonaro has already unofficially launched the election campaign and conjured up a fight between good and evil, his challengers Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva and Sergio Moro are still holding back – at least officially.

Brazil's most famous corruption hunter wants to become president: Moro challenges Bolsonaro

Sergio Moro, Brazil's most famous corruption hunter and former President Lula's chief prosecutor, worked as Minister of Justice under Bolsonaro and, in an interview with IPPEN.MEDIA, finds clear words about the President's behavior.

His handling of the Ukraine war was "shameful".

Even if he is currently well behind Lula and Bolsonaro in polls, Moro does not want to give in in the race for the presidential election in Brazil and during a visit to Hamburg he creates a mood against the incumbent government.

Presidential election in Brazil: candidate Sergio Moro criticizes the attitude of opponents Bolsonaro and Lula in the Ukraine war

Although Brazilian diplomats at the UN voted against the war in Ukraine, President Jair Bolsonaro does not want to condemn Putin's actions in general and wants to take a neutral stance - similar to his predecessor Lula.

What is her position?

I spoke out against the Russian invasion right at the start of the war.

Brazil must make it very clear where they stand.

It is very embarrassing for us that the previous and current presidents have not done this until now.

This is a question of Ukrainian sovereignty and we must stand with the Ukrainian people. 

Is that how everyone thinks in Brazil?

The majority in Brazil is against the war.

The attitude of Bolsonaro, but also that of Lula, does not reflect the true picture.

We really hope that the war will be resolved in an appropriate manner.

We certainly have a large community in our country that has its origins in the Ukraine.

Is that why Brazilian society actually fears a strong migration movement of people who could flee to their relatives?

Brazil is basically open to refugees from Ukraine.

But I don't think Brazil is really a destination for many Ukrainians.

Brazil is far away and most will want to stay close to their country, somewhere in Europe.

But if need be, we will have an open arms policy for refugees.

We have recently offered refuge to many people from Venezuela, Syria or African countries.

This is Sergio Moro

Sergio Fernando Moro was born in Maringá on August 1, 1972 and is a former federal judge from Brazil.

Moro was Minister of Justice from January 2019 to April 2020 under current President Jair Bolsonaro.

However, he resigned from office due to disagreements.

Sergio Moro wants to win the 2022 presidential election in Brazil for his Podemos party.

The former justice minister, Moro, has been accused by the independent media of taking sides and biased investigations against the camp of the PT's social-democratic government.

Among other things, Moro played a leading role in the trial of ex-President Lula da Silva.

From July 12, 2017 and February 24, 2018, Moro sentenced the former president to long prison terms.

The Ukraine conflict is also currently triggering a trade war.

Brazil gets most of the fertilizer from Russia for its important global agriculture.

To what extent do you fear the effects of the Russia sanctions on your own country?

We are very aware of the problem.

But to be honest, we don't know the exact effects yet.

Brazil has already imported enough fertilizer for the next season.

But what happens afterwards?

I'm not sure.

One thing is certain: we are looking for other providers, for example in Canada.

Will the change work?

Brazil is a major food supplier worldwide.

I therefore hope that the problem can be solved together with other countries.

In order to reduce dependence on other countries, Bolsonaro is having indigenous land cleared in the Amazon region* – on the grounds that it is there that potassium, which is important for fertilizers, is being mined.

How do you feel about this?

We have no choice but to respect the economy of the indigenous people.

There is a law according to which the cultivation of the area depends on the will of the indigenous population, i.e. they decide for themselves.

There are those who want to use the area for mining, others don't.

If you want it: fine.

If not, then we have to look around for alternatives. 

Presidential candidate Sergio Moro against Bolsonaro: Former justice minister wants to take action against illegal deforestation

From a European point of view, there is always great concern about deforestation in the tropics.

Will she gain weight?

Again, it depends on the will of the indigenous people.

But of course we must not ignore the environmental laws in Brazil.

When mining* regulations must be observed, also in the Amazon region.

However, there is also illegal deforestation.

Something could be done about it with laws, unfortunately the current government is not doing a good job.

At the same time, I definitely see the desire of the population to focus on sustainable development and to improve the protection of the Amazon region.

If you vote: What will you personally do to improve environmental protection?

I have developed a plan with projects.

The first thing we have to do is make it very clear that we will take action against illegal logging in the Amazon and that anyone who breaks the law must face the consequences.

In Germany, the development is traditionally viewed critically.

With the Greens, a party is now in power that is pushing very hard for sustainable development.

A problem in German-Brazilian relations?

Brazil is definitely interested in sustainable development and also in the switch to renewable energies.

We also have a strong agricultural industry that is not necessarily linked to the deforestation of the Amazon.

We know we need to protect the area better.

But it's not right to blame Brazilian agriculture exclusively.

We need to make that clear.

Brazil: Sergio Moro on time as Minister of Justice under Bolsonaro - "Personal history very closely linked to the law"

You were part of the Brazilian government for a year and a half.

What caused the rupture?

My personal history is very closely linked to the law.

As a federal judge, I fought corruption.

After some successes, I decided to continue this work in the government and to implement the anti-corruption fight institutionally.

But after a year and a half, I unfortunately had to realize that my agenda was different than that of President Bolsonaro.

That's why I stopped.

I believe very strongly in the foundation of law in a strong democracy.

But I had no support for that.

Brazil is currently highly polarized between a left that supports Lula and the Workers' Party (PT) and a conservative right with a populist President, Jair Bolsonaro.

Where would you place yourself?

Downtown.

I want to be a moderate voice.

I am against the left-right scheme.

Lula and Bolsonaro are fading the economy and riddled with corruption.

They disappoint anyone hoping for real change.

They are in third place according to polls and there seems little chance of a turnaround.

The elections aren't until October.

The race is not over yet.

What else can you offer voters to balance the extreme positions of Lula and Bolsonaro?

I believe in a strong democracy and a liberal economy, which we need to open even more to the international market.

But that only works with strong institutions and a commitment to strong rules of the law and a determined fight against corruption.

Of course, there are also many challenges, such as fighting poverty through better social policies.

How else do you want to reach people with your approach?

I have a history as a federal judge that stands for credibility.

In contrast to others, I have proven that I actually take action against corruption.

We have already started a campaign, also on social media.

I'm also traveling and we talk to people.

In the end there will be a majority for us because I believe they no longer want polarization between two extremes. 

"Violence does not come from the federal police": Bolsonaro's challenger, Sergio Moro, on police violence in Brazil

You mentioned the future challenges.

But what about security?

Violence and crime are a problem, especially in big cities in Brazil, aren't they?

You can see that during my time as Attorney General the crime rate has been reduced.

Back then, we took very strong action against organized crime.

Unfortunately, I couldn't continue this fight.

But if I am elected, I will reinstate him. 

Recently, there has often been an outcry about the very harsh actions of the police, who very quickly take up arms and shoot.

Why didn't you get this under control as Minister?

The violence does not come from the federal police, which reports to the Ministry of Justice.

The respective police units of the states are responsible for this.

But of course violence is a problem.

You have to act.

Also in this area.

And how do you want to do that?

The introduction of bodycams, which record and document the activities, could make it easier to prosecute wrongdoing.

We also need to improve training to explain that cracking down on the population will not stop violence. 

Officially, election campaigns in Brazil for the October elections can only begin on August 16th.

While Bolsonaro is struggling with illness and a loss of trust among the population, former President Lula currently seems to be the favorite for the presidential election in Brazil.

As a member of the Labor Party (PT), Lula can count on broad support.

As a representative of the democratic left, he recently tried not to reduce Brazil's relationship with Europe to just Bolsonaro.

Even if corruption hunter Moro is currently far behind his competitors, he still wants to thwart his competitors and become head of state himself.

As a former federal judge and attorney general, he has proven in the past that he can tackle corruption in Brazil.

However, many will not have forgotten that he sometimes drew questionable conclusions.

The coming months will show whether his past as a corruption hunter will hinder him in the presidential election in Brazil and whether Moro can still catch up with Bolsonaro and Lula.

* kreiszeitung.de is an offer from IPPEN.MEDIA.