"I'm not your student!" Melnyk and arms delivery opponents bite down on "Will"

Created: 05/10/2022 05:13

Andrij Melnyk - Ambassador of Ukraine - as a guest on "Anne Will" (ARD).

© NDR/Wolfgang Borrs

Arms shipments to Ukraine: the road to peace or nuclear war?

In "Anne Will" rags fly between the ambassador and the sociology professor.

Berlin – The Ukrainian ambassador Andrij Melnyk is back in his element with "Anne Will": "It's easy for you to sit in your professor's room and philosophize," he turns to sociology professor Harald Welzer, one of the signatories of the hot debated "Emma" letters against the delivery of heavy weapons.

Melnyk pointedly pointed out that it was “morally neglected” to think that Ukraine would have to surrender in the face of nuclear superiority.

At the beginning of her program on Sunday evening, Anne Will emphasized the "memorability" of this May 8th, the day of remembrance that marks the end of the Second World War.

The ensuing, at times heated, debate revolves around the threat of war, fears stemming from an old war and how this is currently affecting German politics and sentiment.

"Anne Will" - these guests discussed with:

• Kevin Kühnert (SPD)

  - General Secretary

• Britta Haßelmann (The Greens)

  - Group leader

• Ruprecht Polenz (CDU) -

  President of the German Society for Eastern European Studies

• Andriy Melnyk -

  Ambassador of Ukraine in Germany

• Prof.

  _

  Harald Welzer -

  sociologist, social psychologist and publicist

Welzer, who appears on Anne Will with a handkerchief and a pink striped shirt, actually seems a bit out of date when he quotes the philosopher Jürgen Habermas in the show: "A war against a nuclear power cannot be won in the traditional sense".

In apparent calm and with a professorial tone, he lectures on "escalation dynamics", "increasing dissolution of war boundaries", "social process" and the "constant play of action and reaction".

As the camera pans, Melnyk makes no secret of his dislike of the professor's attitude and his explanations.

There is a lot of understanding on Twitter that the ambassador sees this as an impertinence against the background of the cruel events in his own country.

Especially when Welzer doesn't hold back with derogatory remarks about Melnyk, calls him "narrow-minded" and barks: "Where do you get that from, just judging people's motives like that?" Possibly among the 45 percent of Germans, against the delivery of heavy weapons, "a very present experience of war in the family".

Ukrainian ambassador warns: Germans have destroyed ten million Ukrainians

An argument that Melnyk, who wears a red poppy on Will's lapel to commemorate the war dead, uses the other way around: "Your ancestors destroyed ten million Ukrainians," the ambassador warns and exclaims: "That's a fault."

"Hitler's Germany could only be defeated because the USA and other countries supplied weapons," says Melnyk.

Against this background, too, it is a “complete illusion”, as Welzer argues.

He doesn't put up with it: "Just keep listening and not commenting," calls Professor Melnyk.

He protested: "I'm not your student." And criticized: "You want Ukraine to surrender because Russia is stronger." But that, according to the ambassador, "is not true."

SPD General Secretary Kevin Kühnert is at a loss in the face of the dispute: "I don't know where this is supposed to lead us." He is concerned about the internal cohesion of society in view of the debate.

Kühnert warns: "In some places we are in danger of tipping over." With regard to the two previous speakers, Kühnert makes it clear that the Ukraine war is in "another political field".

It's not about questions like "minimum wage, wealth tax, rent control";

Topics to which there is a "yes or no".

In Ukraine, it's about "finding a balance", "weighing our steps transparently without getting hectic".

Chancellor Olaf Scholz had made a similar statement a few hours earlier.

But Kühnert also reminds: "The mere silence of weapons does not bring peace".

Ruprecht Polenz warns: Negotiations with Russia are currently not possible

Ex-CDU General Secretary Ruprecht Polenz, who signed a counter-initiative to the "Emma" letter, supports Melnyk's argument objectively.

It is wrong to say that a nuclear power cannot be won.

Polenz lists: "The Americans lost in Vietnam", the USA together with "two other nuclear powers, France and Great Britain", did not win in Afghanistan - like the Soviet Union before them.

Polenz also doesn't find Welzer's argument about the reluctance towards Russia given the history since 2014 to be conclusive: "If you followed your advice, you would definitely get into escalation problems," says the CDU man.

“Many concessions have been made since 2014”.

But because "Putin's goal is to wipe out Ukraine as a state" and he speaks of "denazification of Ukraine", negotiations are not possible at all at the moment.

Ambassador: Applications have been in the Chancellery for three weeks and have not been approved

Green parliamentary group leader Britta Haßelmann supports this attitude: "Anything that Putin conquered by force of arms after February 24 and can keep would be a success for him.

It's not that difficult to understand."

She clarifies again: "I also don't know why people believe that if we deliver a certain type of weapon, then war will start sooner or not".

Melnyk wants to make it clear that there is still a wide gap between wanting and doing.

Although the Bundestag recently voted almost unanimously for the delivery of heavy weapons, the weapons have not yet arrived.

The ambassador draws again the comparison to the Second World War.

At that time, the Western Allies delivered “14,000 aircraft, 8,000 tanks and 7,000 anti-aircraft guns to the Soviet Union and we are talking about seven self-propelled howitzers here.” ", the ambassador complains and is visibly disappointed: "Every day costs lives.

The longer you sit here and discuss, we lose lives.” Ukraine will not surrender: “We will continue to fight and we will get support from other partners who are ready to do something.”

Conclusion of the "Anne Will" talk

The program made one thing clear: Even if the Bundestag agrees and the Chancellor speaks of a “turning point”, everything must have its administrative order and the debates on finding a majority must be conducted in detail before Germany takes action.

Nevertheless, the two parties in the show, some of whom were rude to each other, had something in common: the desire for peace and reconciliation.

From Putin's point of view, however, it will make little difference whether Germany actively helps Ukraine now or waits.

His nationalist expansion course is set.

At the moment, Germany still has the luxury of discussing this, Ukraine has already largely lost it.