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Ukraine war just the beginning for Putin? Hofreiter warns of "Markus Lanz" against Russia's aggression

2022-05-11T11:48:57.370Z


Ukraine war just the beginning for Putin? Hofreiter warns of "Markus Lanz" against Russia's aggression Created: 05/11/2022 13:34 The guests at "Markus Lanz" (ZDF) on May 10th, 2022. © Screenshot ZDF Mediathek Arms shipments to Ukraine? Germany is divided on this issue, with “Markus Lanz” proponents and opponents discussing their stance.  Hamburg - At "Markus Lanz" on Tuesday evening, the polit


Ukraine war just the beginning for Putin?

Hofreiter warns of "Markus Lanz" against Russia's aggression

Created: 05/11/2022 13:34

The guests at "Markus Lanz" (ZDF) on May 10th, 2022.

© Screenshot ZDF Mediathek

Arms shipments to Ukraine?

Germany is divided on this issue, with “Markus Lanz” proponents and opponents discussing their stance. 

Hamburg - At "Markus Lanz" on Tuesday evening, the politician Anton Hofreiter (Greens) renewed his demand to supply Ukraine with heavy weapons.

During his visit to Ukraine, people understood many German positions and concerns.

However, they became "bad-tempered" when they were paternalistically argued that, for example, Ukrainian soldiers were unable to control certain tanks.

Hofreiter also rejects the argument put forward by doctor Lars Pohlmeier that silencing the guns would shorten the suffering of the people in Ukraine: “They get really bad-tempered.

Because they say: 'Have you actually noticed what happens when a region is conquered by Russia?

Then the suffering gets much worse.'”

Ukraine war at "Markus Lanz": Heavy arms deliveries to the war zone - yes or no?

"I don't see it in a paternalistic way," Pohlmeier faces the debate.

He agreed with Hofreiter that the war had to be ended, albeit through diplomatic channels.

Pohlmeier recalls the Korean War, in which North Korea was devastated - something that the people of Ukraine should be spared.

“But how do you want to negotiate?” Hofreiter interjects.

Ukraine is constantly trying to negotiate with Russia, which demands "surrender and annihilation" of Ukraine as a condition.

It is therefore of little use to recommend that the victim of this aggression should negotiate more.

Rather, Ukraine's ability to defend itself must be strengthened - in the way it demands.

Pohlmeier replies that he agrees with the statements made by Jürgen Habermas in the

Süddeutsche Zeitung

.

It is to be feared that Ukraine will not be able to win the war and that the suffering of the civilian population will unnecessarily prolong.

Because Pohlmeier can't think of a more specific answer to talkmaster Markus Lanz's question about a solution than "More diplomacy instead of more weapons," the moderator accuses him of dodging.

Pohlmeier rejects this, he neither knows "the ultimate truth" nor is he "the dear Lord who can assess it".

The political scientist Liana Fix criticizes Pohlmeier's attitude for assuming that Russia will adhere to a ceasefire at all: "Looking at the previous wars that Russia waged, for example in Syria, we have no indication that this is actually the will be the case."

War in Ukraine just the beginning for Putin?

Hofreiter warns of "Markus Lanz" against Russia's aggression

Fix also rejects the alleged causality that arms deliveries lead to a nuclear conflict.

Pohlmeier counters: "We simply don't know.

And if something happens, it will be the end of Europe.” It may be true, Pohlmeier admits, that the likelihood of a nuclear war in the escalating Ukraine conflict is not acute.

However, should there be a misunderstanding in the current political situation, the Kremlin has little room for manoeuvre.

Hofreiter does not accept Pohlmeier's arguments, but demands that he should think his attitude through to the end.

If the Ukrainian military cannot defend their territory, the way is free for Putin to attack Moldova via Odessa.

"The belief that the Putin system is satisfied with what it then achieved in Ukraine - after Georgia, after Syria, after the first attack on Ukraine, you no longer need to have this belief," Hofreiter explains his view and leads how far the geopolitical consequences could be in such a case.

China is also following the situation closely, and an attack on Taiwan might be the result of indecisive action by the West.

In addition, there is a historical argument for supporting Ukraine, after all, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in the 1990s and was guaranteed its territorial integrity by Russia.

"Markus Lanz" - these were his guests on May 10th:

  • Anton Hofreiter (Greens)

    - politician


  • Liana Fix

    - Political Scientist


  • Lars Pohlmeier

    – doctor


  • Michael Broecker

    – journalist

Hofreiter attests to Pohlmeier's analysis a "German arrogance" and a "colonial view", because it is not the West that is demanding stronger action against Russia, but first and foremost the Baltic States and Russia's immediate neighbors.

"Now I'm already a colonialist," groans Pohlmeier, emphasizing that he is in favor of supporting Ukraine - but still opposed to the delivery of heavy weapons.

The journalist Michael Bröcker also takes Hofreiter's side, saying it's up to Ukraine alone to say what counts as support and what doesn't.

Pohlmeier does not go into this and refers to host Lanz to Chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD), who originally said that he would do everything possible to avoid being drawn into the Ukraine war.

There has long been agreement on this, says Hofreiter, so hardly anyone in political Berlin will want to comply with the Ukrainian request for a no-fly zone.

He maintains his accusation of looking through the lens of colonialism, because: "For me, it is a very important left-wing narrative to always first hear what the victims want."

"Markus Lanz" leads a fundamental debate about arms deliveries to Ukraine

"I would also like it to be different, but I just can't bake the aggressor," Hofreiter comments on the fact that Putin can probably only be persuaded to return to the negotiating table if Ukraine is well equipped.

According to Hofreiter, the latter have already been “very generous” in their offers to negotiate, but Russia is not responding.

Pohlmeier, on the other hand, sees Hofreiter's political responsibility as a member of parliament in organizing a mediator who would persuade Putin to give in.

"But we're working on that all the time," counters Hofreiter.

Decisions such as subsidies and raw material embargoes are intended to bring about the understanding in Moscow that the war drive is not worthwhile.

"I'm still hopeful that there is a way to change this dynamic of violence with Putin," Pohlmeier remains an optimist.

That may be naïve, but events such as the fall of the Berlin Wall or the Nuclear Weapons Ban Treaty also came about through diplomatic channels.

Alternatively, it is to be feared that Ukraine will be completely destroyed because Putin will not give in.

However, the question of a capitulation in Kiev for the sake of its own security does not arise for people in the Ukraine, Bröcker and Hofreiter describe their discussions on site.

The latter recalls that parts of the Ukrainian civilian population had to experience atrocities during the Russian presence over the past two and a half months: "We are not defending ourselves and at least we are getting away with our lives.

"Markus Lanz" - The conclusion of the show

At "Markus Lanz" on Tuesday evening, politician Anton Hofreiter (Green Party) and doctor Lars Pohlmeier took up positions pro and contra heavy arms deliveries to Ukraine.

What both have in common is concern about the continued existence of Ukraine and the avoidance of further escalation between Russia and the West.

However, the conclusions they draw from this could hardly be more different.

While Hofreiter has changed his stance, which was originally directed against arms deliveries, Pohlmeier remains skeptical about what this could mean for the Ukrainian population in the long term.

Talkmaster Markus Lanz complained that Pohlmeier did not provide a concrete solution, while political scientist Liana Fix and journalist Michael Bröcker also supported Hofreiter's position.

(Hermann Racke)

Source: merkur

All news articles on 2022-05-11

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