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Deputy Prime Minister Stefanischyna (centre, with Danish Prime Minister Mette Fredriksen and Spain's Pedro Sanchez in April): "If Russia wins in Ukraine, it will set the rules on the continent"
Photo: MIGUEL GUTIERREZ / EPA-EFE
SPIEGEL:
You describe yourself on Twitter as, among other things, "mother and dreamer."
What future do you dream of for your child?
Olga Stefanischyna:
My daughter is ten years old and my son is six.
I dream that one day the war will only be a childhood memory for them.
That they will grow up in a prosperous country.
That their children will not see the war with their own eyes.
My daughter was only two years old when Crimea was annexed.
My son was born when the war in Donbass was already taking place.
They know a lot about it and are very patriotic.
That gives me strength - even though I haven't seen her almost since the beginning of the war.
We took her to a safer place outside of Kyiv.
It sucks to be so far away from them.
But they are safer than many other children.
If there's anything I can do to bring Ukraine closer to victory, I have to do it.
SPIEGEL:
The EU has hardly made an appearance as a military power.
How would it help Ukraine to join the EU now?
Stefanischyna:
Accession is unlikely to stop military aggression immediately.
But the Ukrainian people chose the EU and did a lot to join it.
That decision is now being undermined by military aggression.
It is challenged by war crimes committed by Russian soldiers.
Candidate status would show that the EU respects our choice, that our future lies in the EU.
It would also close the issue of 'Russia's sphere of influence', which is important to ending this war.
Therefore, we are pleased that all EU members are considering Ukraine's EU application.
»Attack on the democratic world«
SPIEGEL:
Critics say that a country's opposition to Russia's aggressor does not automatically make it an EU candidate.
Stefanischyna:
Things are different.
The EU is the strongest power on the continent.
It is based on values that enable the prosperity and growth of European nations.
I believe that the EU has no choice at all.
If Russia wins, not only Ukraine will suffer.
Russia will not stop until it is stopped.
Russia's war is an attack on the democratic world.
We should all consider what we can contribute to European stability.
Any Russian success would show that the EU was incapable of preventing war.
If Russia wins in Ukraine, it will set the rules on the continent.
SPIEGEL:
President Macron rejected Ukraine's rapid accession to the EU and instead proposed creating a "parallel European community."
What does the proposal mean in practice?
Stefanischyna:
We don't understand what this is supposed to be about.
The Ukrainian people have done far more than other countries to aspire to EU values.
Now holding it hostage to internal debates about the reshaping of the EU is not the way to go.
We have the consensus of all 27 member states that Ukraine belongs to the European family.
The only question is how fast.
We know that admission is a complicated process.
All we ask for now is candidate status.
There are no arguments against it.
Any hesitation would be a sign of weakness.
SPIEGEL:
Are you afraid that Macron's proposal will put your country in a "EU waiting room" for a long time?
Stefanischyna: From
what we have heard and discussed, the proposal has nothing to do with a formal status.
But everything below formal status has existed in the past - economic cooperation, freedom of movement, to name just a few examples.
Political leaders are changing, in Ukraine and also in the EU.
That's why we want a formal status that guarantees that no political group can stop Ukraine's decision to join the EU.
SPIEGEL:
You mean, if Russia should still succeed in installing a pro-Russian government?
Stefanishyna:
Ukraine will never allow that.
Russia has already failed on every count.
More than 90 percent of Ukrainians support European integration.
SPIEGEL:
Did Macron discuss his proposal with you or one of your colleagues before presenting it?
Stefanischyna:
No, but we've heard similar things from different capitals.
More than 90 percent of Ukrainians are in favor of accession
SPIEGEL:
What reaction do you expect from Russia if Ukraine is granted candidate status?
Stefanishyna:
Over the past 20 years, we have seen that paying attention to what Russia says is no use.
Instead, the so-called strategy of not angering Russia has paved the way for aggression.
It brought two wars in Ukraine and one in Georgia.
In any case, we no longer look over our shoulders.
Russia has already committed all sorts of crimes on our territory.
SPIEGEL:
There is a debate about Article 42.7 of the EU Treaty.
It guarantees the support of all EU states in case a member is attacked.
How do you interpret that - does it include military support, as is the case with NATO?
Stefanischyna:
That's a pretty general article, since most EU members are part of NATO.
Russia knows no borders.
It launched missiles from Belarus.
They use the Black Sea for this and could also use the Baltic Sea.
You can already reach almost every capital in the EU.
If Russia gains control of Ukraine, it will move closer to eight EU capitals.
SPIEGEL:
Charles Michel announced that the EU would provide military support to Ukraine.
What does that mean specifically?
Stefanishyna:
This means that for the first time in history the EU is giving 1.5 billion euros to reimburse member states for providing military support to Ukraine.
Each government then decides for itself what it makes available to us.
This is a very strong sign of solidarity with Ukraine.
“Russia knows no borders.
It launched missiles from Belarus.
They use the Black Sea for this and could also use the Baltic Sea.«
Olga Stefanishyna
SPIEGEL:
Before the war, you said in a SPIEGEL interview that Ukraine would fight alone and that no other state would send soldiers.
Are you satisfied with what EU countries are doing today?
Stefanishyna:
We have a fairly strong army, 300,000 soldiers in the armed forces plus the national guard and territorial defense.
In fact, none of the countries sent soldiers.
But the capabilities of the Ukrainian army surprised the whole world.
SPIEGEL:
The magazine "Politico" recently wrote that the Anglo-Saxon countries supported the Ukrainian army the most.
Do you agree?
Stefanischyna:
All the countries mentioned there support us.
But in terms of speed, timing and quality, the Anglo-Saxon countries are champions because we exchange information with each other.
You know what we need to better defend ourselves.
SPIEGEL:
Large, prosperous Germany has repeatedly been criticized for supporting Ukraine too little or too hesitantly.
Do you agree?
Stefanishyna:
I have nothing to add to the comments of my colleagues in the government.
The best thing Germany can do now is to immediately support our candidate status in the EU.
Germany can turn things around.
Germany represents the old Europe and can now contribute to creating a new Europe.
In this way we could turn a new page in our bilateral relations.
"Internally, we no longer have any challenges"
SPIEGEL:
With which EU heads of state or government will you personally discuss the relationship between the EU and Ukraine?
Stefanischyna:
Contacts will be intensified in the coming weeks.
Discussions are planned with Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and Italy.
We are in constant contact with everyone, but above all with our neighboring countries.
SPIEGEL:
Macron argues that the EU would have to lower its standards in order to immediately accept Ukraine.
What is the biggest obstacle on the way to the EU?
Stefanischyna:
We want to meet the accession criteria.
But so far we are talking about candidate status.
Negotiations to meet all criteria are the next step, just like in other countries.
Internally we no longer have any challenges, the unity of the various political groups is enormous.
We are one to win the war, we focus all our efforts on it.
Before the war there were many challenges and now we have to reform the judiciary, for example.
But the country operates in military mode.
We froze everything else.
SPIEGEL:
Ukraine will cut gas supplies to the EU.
Do you fear that EU members will no longer support your application for membership as a result?
Stefanischyna:
So far we haven't heard anything of the sort.