Expert sees "Illner" only as a way out of Ukraine - a "crushing defeat" for Putin

Created: 05/20/2022, 12:20 p.m

Ukraine Talk: Military expert Gustav Gressel (right) on Thursday on "Maybrit Illner" on ZDF.

© Svea Pietschmann/ZDF

Chancellor Olaf Scholz gets his fat off at "Maybrit Illner".

There is talk of "cheating around" and "hesitancy".

EU boss Ursula von der Leyen is in favor of reforms in Ukraine. 

Berlin – “One thing is absolutely clear: Ukraine longs with all its might to become a member of the EU.

And we also see how much they defend our values ​​- right down to their lives!" EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen expressly acknowledges Ukraine's achievements in her "Maybrit Illner" interview.

The author Yevgenia Belorusets, who joined in from Kyiv, also confirmed to her compatriots: "The Ukrainians feel European!" Conversely, she also clarified the importance of the Ukraine war for the European Union: "If Putin is not stopped," says the author, this means the same thing "further deaths in Ukraine" also a rejection of "European security".

In addition, von der Leyen describes how possible cooperation with the currently badly damaged country could take place.

The CDU politician suggests - since the reconstruction must be supported by the West and thus also by Germany - that investments be linked to reforms: "For example, against corruption or for establishing the rule of law." She already had this plan with the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Selenskyj "discussed in the morning", according to von der Leyen.

EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen (CDU) in conversation with Maybrit Illner.

© ZDF Mediathek (Screenshot)

Ukraine war: "Illner" talk strengthens optimism - "resistance" in Russia, "about-turn" in Ukraine?

"It depends on Ukraine itself how it manages to rebuild," said von der Leyen.

"How she gets rid of the oligarchs and pushes the reforms" and "tackles corruption in the country".

Von der Leyen also makes it clear that the EU also wants to get Russia to make payments for reconstruction.

EU lawyers are currently "working intensively to find a way of using the oligarchs' frozen assets for reconstruction".

Military expert Gustav Gressel, meanwhile, even concedes that Ukraine has a chance of military victory.

However, not in the near future.

A possible "turnaround" could come in the summer, says Gressel.

Then if Putin does not succeed in mobilizing new soldiers.

The security expert expects another slump in September: The Russian army has been "substantially weakened" by its war of aggression, Gressel explains.

There are currently no troops "to wage another war in Europe".

If the situation persists, the Ukrainian army could “gain the upper hand again”.

20,000 Russian soldiers have already died in Ukraine, says Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, Chairwoman of the Bundestag Defense Committee: If "18, 19-year-olds who don't come back are drafted," says the FDP security expert, It must also be clear to Putin that "resistance" will arise in the long run.

Strack-Zimmermann, who wears the Ukrainian flag on her lapel, is reluctant to criticize the chancellor and other members of the government.

However, the liberals reprimanded waiting too long for the arms deliveries.

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Ukraine rejects ceasefire and makes final demands on Russia

"Maybrit Illner" - these guests discussed with:

• Ursula von der Leyen (CDU)

  - President of the European Commission

• Gregor Gysi (Die Linke)

  - Foreign policy spokesman for the Die Linke parliamentary group in the Bundestag

• Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann (FDP)

  - Chairwoman of the Defense Committee in the German Bundestag

• Gustav Gressel -

  Military and Security Expert from the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR)

• Yevgenia Belorusets -

  photographer and author from Kiev

• Markus Feldenkirchen -

  political author in the capital city office of "Spiegel"

Ukraine War: "Heavy Weapons Debate" Pointless?

Expert warns against obedience to Putin

Spiegel

journalist Markus Feldenkirchen sees the Ukraine dispute between SPD and FDP not just as a question of "different mentalities": "Two forces want something different".

The Chancellor is being pushed more and more by his coalition partner "week by week", but a common direction cannot be identified.

The foreign policy spokesman for the left, Gregor Gysi, defends Scholz.

Due to the "different history" it is advisable to leave the arms deliveries, from which Germany as the "fifth largest arms exporter" always earns, to "other countries".

Military expert Gressel sees it differently.

Instead of “bumping around” and pointless discussion about “heavy weapons”, he calls for ensuring that Russia loses this war “with a bang”.

There is the best and fastest "perspective for change in Russia".

Gressel points to Russia's mobilization on the western borders at "breathtaking speed" and the "nuclear weapons already deployed in Kaliningrad" just a few tens of kilometers from the Polish and Lithuanian borders.

He warns against “dancing too much to Putin's tune” in “anticipatory obedience”.

Because that only encourages the Kremlin chief to continue provoking and threatening nuclear strikes.

One must ensure, according to Gressel, that "this loose tongue", which the Russian leadership has become accustomed to, "turns off" militarism and the "self-definition through military greatness and glory".

Strack-Zimmermann agrees and dares to criticize Scholz in her final sentence: "That's why the federal government shouldn't always talk about the Third World War and nuclear war - and take up this narrative - and drive all the people here crazy!"

Conclusion of the "Maybrit Illner" talk

The show did a good job of discussing the current situation in Ukraine.

Maybrit Illner managed to sum up and offer a more optimistic view of the future: pushing back the Russian army, Ukraine joining the EU, reconstruction made possible by the community of states do indeed appear to be realistic possibilities for establishing justice and peace in Europe .