It has been three years since Adv. Avi Chimi was elected chairman of the Bar Association.
Unlike his predecessor Efi Naveh, who made huge headlines and scandals that eventually led to his departure, he specializes in quiet - but effective - politics.
Five justice ministers have changed during his tenure while he remains stable, and intends to remain in office even after the upcoming election for the post, in the summer of 2023.
"I did not think I would be the head of the bureau," he says, "but I felt we had to get under the stretcher. It was a difficult time when we were even ashamed that we were lawyers and part of the union. I have a strong coalition, not because I pamper its members and distribute jobs, but because the way is clear. "
But you used to be an Effie Naveh man.
"I've been on his list, but we've not been in touch in recent years. I'm busy with the job."
This is the answer of a politician.
"Maybe we should turn on an air conditioner? I'll get hot. Anyway, for me this is a history that there is no point in engaging in."
Why? This is the history of the firm.
"Then you will see that I have at least replaced the table," he laughs.
"People who understand the legal world say that the appointments of judges in this term are quality. I do not mean, God forbid, that whoever was elected in previous terms is not good, but a forceful vision of me and zero more? We are no longer in these places."
So you're a different subscriber?
"This is a competition who is powerful and who is less? He also did good things, but for me that period was left behind."
"We're not in touch."
Efi Naveh, Photo: Yossi Zeliger
About a year ago, the Deputy State Attorney decided to close the sexual bribery case against Naveh and former judge Etty Kreif, who was shaking the state at the time.
Although he noted the serious findings, he said there was no reasonable chance of conviction.
A few months later, it was reported that Naveh was considering running for president again.
"I do not know the evidence in this case," says Chimi, referring to the break-in of his predecessor's mobile phone in office, "but it seems to me that there was a misjudgment in the prosecution regarding the receipt of the investigation materials."
And yet, Naveh was severely criticized there.
"There was public opinion, but in our country it is not interesting, because it is always black or white. Do not understand that there is also content in the middle."
In next year's presidential election, do you think he will run again?
"This is what's beautiful about democracy, anyone can cope. I'm responsible for the work I do, and if after the achievements we made during my term I do not choose, I'm probably an idiot. To this day I have not been an idiot."
"Not going to the premieres"
Adv. Chimi (63), one of the top criminal lawyers in the country, is a man who is busy from morning to evening with cases with a high media profile, but the bureau seems tailor-made for his character.
"I was the chair of the elementary school class committee, and the chair of the buffet committee at the military boarding school where I studied," he laughs.
"Only work or just studies have always bored me. I owe contact with people, and my ultimate dream was to be elected mayor of Kiryat Shmona, the city where I was born. It will not happen again."
The senior position in the bureau does not help you bring more cases to the private office?
"I was a lawyer who knew the job before the bureau, and that skill will stay with me until the day I die. The bureau did not advance me on a personal level, and I do not go to premieres or exhibitions. I am a laborer, get up at six in the morning and work until 11 at night, and I know when I finish here On Daniel Frisch Street (address of the Bar Association; EL), maybe not even 'hello' will say to me.
I came to hold a professional term and raise the bar for lawyers, and anyone who wants to harm democracy is, for me, a target for war. "
In 1949, there were a little over 700 lawyers in the State of Israel. Today, about 80,000 people are registered with the bureau, of whom about 65,000 are active. Is not that too much?
"Israel has a world record of lawyers in relation to the amount of population. After all, we have either not or there is too much, but what is too much? After all, in the end there are values such as freedom of occupation and the right to acquire any education you want. On a high entry threshold, which is why we have incessant struggles and demonstrations.
"I say to the Knesset members, 'Are you not ashamed that you are dealing with the factor (additional grade in difficult exams; EL) of entering the profession?
Why not make a factor for doctors? '
They do this for political reasons because they think that whoever fails and gets a factor will support them in the election.
If you want to protect the citizens, you need worthy lawyers. "
Does the job not help you in front of judges for example? After all, they know where the power is.
"Frankly, I almost stopped going to negotiations with the prosecution, because when I come I usually get a bad deal. That's why I send someone out of the office. Come on, who's afraid of me?"
Do not be naive.
"Everyone knows that even if there is power, it is used for good purposes. I hurt someone? Asked people who have known me from the beginning, I have always been considerate and measured, a person who sees all interests. If for example a defendant curses a lawyer, I can resign."
In the previous elections for the chairmanship of the bureau, you had a dirty fight with Adv. Zion Amir.
"It's not forceful, I'm just not a sucker. I do the work my way and do not believe in extroverted powers. Not that I compare, but was Menachem Begin forceful? He was a speaker, an ideologue, he set a personal example. Only those who are strong are loved?"
"Most judges are good"
From the tenure of his predecessor, Naveh, one remembers, among other things, the "Fact" program, which was attached to the chairman during the annual bureau conference in Eilat. The appointment of Etty Kreif as judge, there was no longer any doubt that something stinking was happening there.
"Every system has events that would have been better not to happen," says Chimi.
"Sometimes there can be a mistake in the selection, but once a Knesset member said that in two minutes a judge is elected - and that is nonsense."
So how do I choose?
"A person submits forms with recommenders from his years of activity as a lawyer, then there is a subcommittee headed by a Supreme Court judge, which includes a member of the Knesset and a representative of the bureau, which examines whether to take him to the next level. From those who appreciate it and in my opinion it filters well.
"There is a problem that sometimes the candidates are internalized and it takes them longer to express themselves, but the course is not the sole parameter. "And it proves itself. There are 800 judges and there will always be the best, but the majority are good. There are also worn-out ones, but they are individual."
Etty Kreif was appointed as a judge, despite a low grade she received in the screening course.
"I do not want to talk about her specifically, but at the end of the day she was supported by many people who knew her and worked with her. Former court director Michael Spitzer, who is currently a judge at the National Labor Court, police prosecutor Dado Zamir - everyone said she was worthy."
"Support her."
Etty Kreif, Photo: From the interview in "Fact"
Is the Eilat Bar Association conference, which begins on May 22, not a source of bad friction?
"When I entered the bureau, I made dramatic changes at the conference. First of all, we all pay for the service equally. There are no benefits for associates and no treats on the 14th floor of the Dan Hotel. Want a suite? You will pay. "About Lior Narkis. We had his show a month ago, and who was the first to buy a ticket? Me. After three years in the job, no one asks for invitations. There's no more."
Do judges pay for the conference?
"As for judges, lawyers and police officers - there is a procedure. If the Deputy Attorney General comes - he gets a flight and accommodation for 24 hours. I want to hear him, and unlike private lawyers, for whom the conference is considered a recognized expense, he is also a public employee. A expense is known to him, and we all know their salary, too. "
The conference does not chaperone them?
"Have you been to Eilat lately? Haven't you dried up in the field? Really, you might think he flies to Las Vegas. By the way, all the journalists who come get flights and a 24-hour stay. No one gets paid, except for one journalist who hosts the main ceremony.
"By the way, regardless, I have a large parking lot here as head of the bureau and I do not use it. I gave it to the employees."
Why is it so important for you to be cleaner than the Pope?
"For God's sake, I earn a decent living. In order to change an organization's DNA, you have to do extreme things, change your feelings.
Look for example, I have Diet Coke and black coffee here, and that's what I get at the bureau.
For everything else I pay.
Not because I am righteous, but because I want to change so it must come down first and foremost from me.
"A lot of people don't like these procedures because they project on them, but I want the lawyers to understand that if they pay membership fees it doesn't mean they bought America. They want, and rightly so, that the money will be channeled to good channels and not to associates."
Chaimi is stately, old-fashioned.
On days when there is talk of reforms and changes, he defends the justice system with all its weight.
"I have been a lawyer for 32 years, and I have always respected the legal system and believed that without fear of royalty, we are in trouble," he clarifies.
"I have always opposed politicians who tail the system and harm it. I believe the Supreme Court is the fortress of democracy and human rights. Politicians come and go, the system stays."
Is the Supreme Court immune from criticism?
"No body is immune, but between criticism and destruction the distance is great. Now for example there is a determined justice minister who makes corrections and changes, but acts stately. He wants to strengthen and not weaken, so there is a dialogue with him. There are new rules he promoted, like To the Supreme Court in the Judicial Selection Committee. I congratulated it, because it is not a public tribunal of MKs or elements who will send candidates. No one wants to come to the killing valley, want to present a sub, legal achievements. Serious, balanced. "
You used to be against this transparency.
"This is a kind of slippery slope. A balance must be maintained between a public hearing in the Knesset and a videotaped public hearing in the Judicial Selection Committee, which is a difference between heaven and earth. The committee has three Supreme Court justices, two representatives from the Bar Association, two ministers and two MKs And one of the coalition.
There is a balance.
"One of our representatives on the committee is Adv. Muhammad Na'amana, because I thought that 20 percent of the population should be expressed."
To remind you, you wanted former Supreme Court Justice Yoram Danziger on the committee.
"I wanted to, but at the end of the day it turned out that most lawyers think that a lawyer from the private sector should be appointed and not seemingly another judge, even though I have full confidence in Danziger. It is no secret that when we elected Naamana to the committee they wanted to close the chamber "L), but if that happens there will be no democracy in the State of Israel.
"The role of the bureau is not just to form a trade union. Its central part is to preserve human rights in the country and the democratic fabric of life. If you want to close the bureau there is no problem, tomorrow morning I and you will be placed in administrative detention, that's the way."
Did you not get along with the former Minister of Justice, Amir Ohana?
"Ohana is a friend. We were both criminal lawyers, which is a closed cohort, and he is also a relative of mine. However, at one point I could not bear his views. Prosecution '.
"A justice minister should not come to court and support a person who conducts his trial and can not attack the justice system. Do you want to fix it? There is a state way. After all, what is the justice system? "Not the Supreme Court? Democracy must be strengthened. People need to get up in the morning and say every day, 'Thank you, President of the Supreme Court, for playing a difficult and demanding role, when you are under arrows from morning to evening.'"
"People need to get up every morning and say thank you to her."
With Supreme Court Justice Esther Hayut, Photo: Yossi Zeliger
For Ayelet Shaked, as Minister of Justice, it was important to appoint conservative judges.
"That you check if the judges she appointed remain conservative. I saw that someone who is considered conservative is suddenly an activist in a certain field. This is a division that I do not accept, and it is a division that politicians want to say 'we are conservative.'
In the end, the goal is to get the best judges.
"People see a symbol and a flag, and think a judge is a pleasure-filled job. Today every judge has dozens of cases on the day he has to make a decision. I appear in the courts, and you can not tell me urban legends. There is a good legal system and citizens do not always understand. "The whole verdict is difficult, and a minute after the publication, there are always tweets from politicians who have not even read all the arguments and reasoning. The Supreme Court has become a place where politicians get nervous and want to win populism."
Angry that the Supreme Court is interfering in the work of the Knesset.
"The Supreme Court's intervention in legislative legislation is limited. I hear politicians say 'sorry we did not address the justice system,' as if it is a treatment of violence in Israeli society. What needs to be addressed? Change is always welcome."
Judges do not come with an agenda from home?
"In 98 percent of court proceedings, there is no place for an agenda."
What about different issues in the settlements, for example?
"The Supreme Court may need to be a little more balanced, but even with judges who seemingly come from the right, you will not recognize a clear agenda. It is nonsense. In the end, Supreme Court judges understand that they are responsible for instilling universal values. They do not want to punish innocents, and I "I do not see that the agenda significantly affects the proceedings. We saw a decision regarding an incumbent prime minister who is under indictment. There was a unanimous decision by the court that he can continue in office."
Is there no danger that a Supreme Court judge will be intoxicated by force?
"I appear in the Supreme Court once or twice a week, so you can not sell me stories. Who is that? Judge Dafna Barak-Erez, who is a leader in the field of human rights protection?"
Are you not political?
"I am apolitical. I have come to an established conclusion for myself, that I judge everything according to the rules of natural justice. An Ethiopian child will come and not be allowed to enter the club, it infuriates me, so it has to do with politics? If someone sets up a hospital in Sakhnin, I welcome it. What is the connection to the right or the left? "
Claiming to be left-wing.
"If you uphold the rule of law and the Supreme Court, are you left-wing? Today yes, but I do not accept that. I sit in conversations with friends and see that they have a basic misunderstanding about judgments. Shout out 'Why did the Supreme Court suddenly rule like that? "', I explain the rationale and they say' now we understand '. Most people do not understand what the role of the Supreme Court really is."
Is everything fair?
"No, and in recent years there has been a certain moderation. We need a tribunal that looks at the above and determines the proper and value-based way.
"Multi-piece puzzle"
Today, as social networks judge quickly, the incident that happened at the New Lawyers Certification Ceremony, in which singer Maya Avraham forgot a line from the anthem, was enough to slam the bar in terms of its political location.
"Do you remember that she forgot or was confused and did not sing 'Nefesh Yehudi Homia', do you remember that I was tired of being a member of a law firm that allows such a disgrace?", Wrote attorney Tali Gottlieb. Social activist Liz Hameiri added: In flattery to the Arabs, like summoning Ahmad Tibi and Mansour Abbas to a bureau conference. "
"I was at the ceremony and I didn't even notice it, I kept singing the anthem," says Chimi.
"The next day, the network erupted and wrote things like 'Avi Chimi and the bureau omitted a line on purpose.' I, Putin, decided to drop a line of hope. I received hundreds of insults.
"You see, the facts are no longer interesting. I was a captain in the IDF, I do reservists in the military defense, who are you anyway?
I was told to 'make a clarification', but I said I would not, because Zionism and the love of my country are not in dispute.
That's why I say it's easy for me in the job, because I have a way.
"Someone curses and you want to kill him, but you tell yourself that freedom of expression and other voices are a more important value."
Today it is not just the town square that judges and hangs. The former prime minister has argued that the system is problematic.
"The public must understand that the defendant has the right to cry for innocence, even if he is prime minister, because as a person your world has been destroyed on you.
In the Netanyahu trial, I see both sides shouting "we have won" every day.
"Do you know what I mean to those who say 'I had a good day'? That a trial is like a multi-piece puzzle. One statement or another of a witness does not go up or down. "You are not a good professional."
You had a critique of the investigation that Nir Hefetz underwent, until the state in the Netanyahu trial.
"Hard criticism. Sometimes I get angry at myself as a lawyer.
I see suspects being brought in for remand extensions when their whole body is full of bites, and when they tell about fleas I answer 'Did you think you came to the Hilton?'
We have become accustomed to these terrible things.
"When you do an interrogation and bring a relative from the nuclear family to give the impression that everything will be destroyed on you, it is in my eyes an illegitimate interrogation exercise.
"But what's nice? That in the end the court will determine if the exercises caused a witness to lie, and more than that they might even disqualify some of the investigative materials obtained in this way. There is no case without investigative failures. I lecture police officers "Not to judge who is to blame, but to investigate." I also tell the police and prosecutors that whoever runs after a conviction does not understand his role - he should run after the truth. "
There is a farewell party for the outgoing Attorney General, Avichai Mandelblit, even though he was criticized.
"People do not know Mandelblit. His face is good, his style of speech is not always determined, but he made the right decisions and even if I do not agree with all of them, you can not sludge in this institution. He had a difficult term, four elections, an indictment against a prime minister , Essential things, and he worked with courage and integrity.I really appreciate him.
"In the same breath, I want to say that I met the new legal adviser Gali in Rabbi Miara, and I think we were blessed with someone who benefited from her services. Serious, modest, well-mannered. Newspaper headlines do not impress her. Sometimes we forget that modesty is an important trait. Those who wanted the ego. "
She's anonymous.
"In my opinion, when she walks down the street and is not recognized, she is happy. Must one start every day with a headline? Serious and rooted doing is much more important."
"Having a way."
In Rabbi Miara, Photo: Oren Ben Hakon
Roman Zadorov's retrial does not indicate a weakness of the system?
"On the contrary. There should be many more retrials. Judge Hanan Meltzer, the deputy president of the Supreme Court, came in, felt doubts and ordered a retrial, even though the case was already in all the courts. Is this a weakness? In my opinion, this is tremendous strength.
"In the United States, there are statistics that cannot be ignored.
After the new technologies came in, they checked case-by-case, and found that at least five percent had been convicted of no wrongdoing.
If the system orders a retrial, it comes from a place of scrutiny.
The Zadorov trial is a huge force. "
Which came after immense public pressure.
"It is a fact that in the Supreme Court there was a judge who thought that Zadorov was entitled because of the doubt. If opinions are divided, it means that there is a bad feeling and there is no merit in a retrial. I do not want to present an idyll, but we have now heard the testimony of the pathologist Dr. For forensic medicine, which represents the state.
He is constantly considered a reliable person, and suddenly when there is an opinion he gave as a private doctor he is not reliable?
"Or they always responded to Dr. Yehuda Hess, until his last day as a pathologist, and now that he is coming as a defense witness, the State Attorney's Office is slaughtering him."
What it means?
"הדור שלנו ספקן, שואל ומתלבט, והתכונות שרכשנו עם השנים טובות לשופטי ישראל. מי טועה? מי שבטוח שאין דרך אחרת. הרבה פעמים הייתי בהרצאות ששאלו בהן 'זדורוב רצח?' ועניתי שהיה פסק דין במחוזי, עלה לעליון וירד למחוזי, ורק מי שמכיר את התיק וקרא את כל פסקי הדין יכול להביע עמדה. כל אלה שהקימו עמותות יודעים על מה הם מדברים? לא. במדינת ישראל נהייתה תופעה - כולם חושבים שהם יכולים להביע דעה, למרות שאין להם בסיס משפטי או אקדמי והם לא קראו את כל פסקי הדין".
"צריכים להיות הרבה יותר משפטים חוזרים". רומן זדורוב מחוץ לבית המשפט, צילום: גיל אליהו - ג'יני
ישנה הרבה עבודה בשיקום אמון הציבור, שחלקו מאמין שהפרקליטות עסוקה בתפירת תיקים.
"אף אחד לא יכול ללמד אותי על המשפט הפלילי. אין תפירות תיקים במדינת ישראל, זו אגדה אורבנית. יכול להיות שפרקליט מתנהל בקונספציה שגויה, או שלפעמים מפרשים ראיות לא נכון. אני יריב שלהם בדרך כלל, אבל אני גם מכיר אותם כל כך טוב. הפרקליטות היא סיירת מטכ"ל של המדינה ושלטון החוק. מה לעשות, הם לא מחלקים סוכריות - הם מחלקים כתבי אישום".
ואת זה אתה אומר כעורך דין פלילי?
"הרוב המכריע של הפרקליטים הם אנשים מהשורה הראשונה. אם הם היו הולכים למגזר הפרטי הם היו משתכרים פי שבעה, אבל הם רואים בעבודתם שליחות. זה לא אומר שאין תובע כזה או אחר שהכוח השחית את מידותיו, אבל במסה זה אחד הגופים הטובים במדינה. בזכות מה רוצחים, סוחרי סמים ועברייני מין נמצאים בכלא? מי רוצים שיעשה את העבודה?"
דווקא עו"ד חימי, הממלכתי, היה מהראשונים שיצאו בביקורת אחרי התפוצצות פרשת השימוש ברוגלה על ידי משטרת ישראל וקרא להקמת ועדת חקירה ממלכתית. אחרי שהוועדה מצאה שלא היה שימוש ברוגלה למעט פעם אחת והסערה נרגעה כמעט לחלוטין, אני תוהה אם לא מיהר מדי.
"בכלל לא", הוא עונה. "יש לי ביקורת על עובדי המדינה, שכשיש אירוע – במקום לבדוק הם מצופפים שורות. אני לא מקבל את הבדיקה שעשו. במקרה אני מכיר נתונים אחרים, ולדעתי היו צריכים להקים ועדת חקירה ממלכתית בעניין. יש לי הערכה גדולה למשנה ליועמ"שית, עורכת הדין עמית מררי, אבל מבחינתי המסקנות שלה לא מהוות הרגעה לציבור".
היה שימוש ברוגלות?
"אני חושב שהיה. לא יודע אם העלימו עין, אבל לא נאמרה המילה האחרונה בפרשה. כולם נרדמו בשמירה, וגם את זה היה צריך לבדוק. לפעמים עובדי ציבור חושבים שביקורת באה לפגוע בהם, אבל לא, הזכות לפרטיות היא מהערכים האוניברסליים שחייבים לשמור עליהם. אם יש חשש לפגיעה, זה המקום לבדוק לעומק - ולא באמצעות צוות חד־צדדי".
"גרסת הנאשם"
חימי, כאמור, הוא עורך דין שמעורב בדרך כלל בתיקים בעלי פרופיל גבוה, מ"נוכל הטינדר" סיימון לבייב שייצג, ועד פרשת הילד איתן בירן שהוריו נהרגו באסון הרכבל באיטליה, שבה הוא מייצג את בני המשפחה שנשארו באיטליה.
"יש לי קו אדום שהוא שכר טרחה נמוך", הוא צוחק, "אבל ברצינות - אין חשיבות גדולה יותר בעולם מאשר לייצג אדם שנמצא בסיטואציה משפטית ופלילית. בכל פעם כשאני מגן על פושע שעשה מעשים מכוערים ושואלים אותי 'איך אתה עושה את זה?', אני עונה 'אם הבן שלך היה מביא מחר חצי קילו קנאביס מהודו, לא היית רוצה שיהיה לו ייצוג?"
אוקיי, אבל מה למשל עם רוצח ילדים?
"פה יש אי־הבנה בסיסית של הציבור. אני מסייע לבית המשפט להגיע להחלטה צודקת, אני לא שופט. מה זה רוצח ילדים, אני יודע שהוא רצח? שאלתי פעם נאשם אם הוא עשה את העבירה או לא?"
לא שאלת?
"מעולם לא. אם אתה שואל, ברוב המקרים אתה צפוי לקבל תשובה שקרית. אני נצמד לגרסת הנאשם, אבל יכול להציב בפניו קשיים ולומר שהיא לא מסתייעת עם הראייה. לא אטען טיעון שטותי בבית המשפט".
"מעולם לא שאלתי נאשם אם הוא עשה את העבירה או לא". עם "נוכל הטינדר" סיימון לבייב,
לעורכי דין פליליסטים אין שם טוב.
"לפני כמה שבועות ייצגתי מטפלת שהואשמה בהכאת ילדים. הגעתי לבית המשפט וקיללו אותי ואת הנכד שלי. הרכנתי ראש והלכתי הצידה. כשהורים צועקים מספסלים אחוריים ומנסים להטיל מורא על בית משפט זה לא לרוחי, אבל אני מכבד את כאבם ואני גם מכבד את הזכות שלי לייצג כל אדם. איזו חברה נהיה אם מישהו יורשע ולא יהיה מי שיגן עליו?"
בפרשת איתן בירן, לא חשת שזה סוג של משפט שלמה להכריע מי יחזיק בילד?
"אני לא מייצג מישהו כשיש פער ענק בין האמת המשפטית לבין תחושותיו. אם בא נאשם שאני רואה שהתיק שלו חזק מבחינה ראייתית והוא טוען לחפות, ואני יודע שאין ביכולתי לצמצם את הפער, לא אקח את התיק. אני לא הולך לעשות צחוק מעצמי.
"במקרה הזה התחברתי לדודה של הילד בצורה מדהימה. היא אישה מיוחדת במינה והסבא בארץ עשה מעשים שלא ייעשו. אנשים לא מכירים את העובדות. יש לילד סבא וסבתא באיטליה, ומשקלם לא נמוך מהסבא והסבתא שנמצאים בישראל. הם עברו לאיטליה בגלל שהמשפחה עברה לגור שם. מי אמר שאם אתה צועק יותר אתה אוהב יותר את הנכד? הסיפורים של 'יגדל כיהודי או לא', אלה שטויות. מי שרשמו את הילד לבית ספר ציבורי נוצרי היו ההורים לפני מותם, אז מי אתם שתתערבו? אני לא מקבל את הטיעונים האלה".
"לא בתקופת מפא"י"
חימי גדל במשפחה בת שבעה אחים ואחיות. הוריו וחמישה מאחיו עלו ממרוקו והתיישבו בקריית שמונה בשנת 1956.
הוא נשוי לחנה כבר 41 שנה, שניהם ילידי קריית שמונה ומתגוררים כעת בראש העין. יש להם שתי בנות: טל (35), פסיכולוגית קלינית המתגוררת בפריז; ונועם (29), מפיקת אירועים הנמצאת כרגע במזרח, בטיול ארוך של אחרי החתונה.
"יש לי נכד בפריז", הוא אומר, "ואספר לך את הסיפור שלי: אני ואשתי בני קריית שמונה וחברים מגיל הנעורים. היום היא מונתה לראש פקולטה במכללת בית ברל, ובעזרת השם תהיה גם פרופסור. צעדנו יד ביד, הבנו שהשכלה היא הדבר החשוב ביותר והשקענו בה. מישהו חסם אותי? בלם? עצר?"
אז אין לדעתך קיפוח?
"אני לא רוצה להשתמש במושגים של קיפוח, אלא טוען שצריך לשנות סדרי עדיפויות במדינה. ילד בקריית שמונה צריך לקבל סל חינוך בדיוק כמו ילד ברמת אביב. הבעיה היא שמי שמחלק את העוגה, יוצא אחר כך בביקורת. מי מנע מכם עד עכשיו? אנחנו לא בתקופת מפא"י".
לך ולשרת החינוך, יפעת שאשא ביטון, לא היה קשה לצאת מקריית שמונה ולהצליח?
"My brother-in-law, Yaakov Maman, was born in Morocco, immigrated to Kiryat Shmona and was the first Mizrahi professor at the Technion, one of the world's experts in air pollution. It is not only in terms of Orientals and not Orientals.
"What good would it do if you kept remembering the DD's of the '50s and' 60s? You have nothing to complain about, Mr. David Amsalem, you were a government minister and a Member of the Knesset, who prevented you from making changes? I'm not in this place. "
Would you like to be Minister of Justice?
"If they had offered, I would have been involved in increasing public confidence from morning till night and explaining how important the justice system is to the state. Because of the challenge, I would have taken the job."
shishabat@israelhayom.co.il
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