Germany's role in the Ukraine war: "If Kyiv were to fall, the world would have the impression that Germany is to blame"

Created: 06/11/2022, 06:07

Manfred Weber (CSU) and Claudia Roth (B'90/The Greens) discuss on "Maybrit Illner" (ZDF).

© Jule Roehr/ZDF

Maybrit Illner wants to shed light on Erdogan's role in the Ukraine war.

Manfred Weber sees a failure of the German government, but praises Annalena Baerbock.

Berlin – Because of Turkey's blocking of the admission of Finland and Sweden into NATO, Manfred Weber (CSU) calls for a clear edge on "Maybrit Illner" on ZDF.

"The only thing that helps is determination and strength," says the party and parliamentary group leader of the EPP.

With a view to the economic difficulties on the Bosporus, this would also mean "showing Turkey that the European Union is not to be trifled with".

In any case, only Ukraine can decide on the possible role of Turkey as a mediator.

"Erdogan has political power, we have to admit that," Claudia Roth (Greens) makes clear, "we are now paying the price for political dependence."

The dependence on Russian gas and oil has recently shown where this could lead.

With his current behavior, Erdogan intends blackmail.

"But," says Roth, "how can someone conduct peace negotiations who is simultaneously carrying out attacks in Syria and northern Iraq that violate international law and who is unspeakably provocative in Greece?"

"Maybrit Illner" - these guests discussed with:

• Claudia Roth (B'90/The Greens)

  - Secretary of State for Culture

• Manfred Weber (CSU)

  - party and parliamentary group leader EPP

• ben

  hodges

  Lieutenant General a.

  D., Center for European Policy Analysis

• Deniz Yucel

  -

  German-Turkish journalist

• Gwendolyn Sasse

  - Political scientist and Slavist, Center for East European and International Studies

• Elmar Theveßen

  - head of the ZDF studio in Washington, switched on

“Why no word from Biden on that?

Because he sees Erdogan in the mediator position?” Maybrit Illner asks her colleague Elmar Theveßen.

The head of the ZDF studio in Washington explains that the US government is "annoyed by Erdogan": "The criteria that Finland and Sweden now have to meet in order to become members of NATO would no longer be met by Erdogan's Turkey today .” For US President Joe Biden, Turkey's concession is a question of price.

Among other things, Turkey is demanding modernization pacts for the F-16 fighter jets.

But there are also economic interests.

However, the voices that believe: "Erdogan is a hopeless case" are getting louder and louder.

Broadcast from June 9th, 2022 - Dispute instead of strength - but not together against Putin?

Claudia Roth as a guest on "Maybrit Illner" (ZDF).

© Jule Roehr/ZDF

US Lieutenant General Ben Hodges: "There will be a price to pay"

Maybrit Illner asked Ben Hodges whether the Turkish president should be bought into agreeing to the admission of Finland and Sweden to NATO.

"I think there will be a price to pay," says the former US lieutenant general.

However, he emphasizes: "Turkey also knows that its long-term security depends on being part of this alliance." The background may also be the elections in Turkey, which are due next year.

"Erdogan wants to demonstrate strength," says Hodges, while acknowledging that Turkey's security concerns should be taken seriously.

Hodges can understand that Ukraine does not want to cede more parts of its country in favor of a truce.

"Nobody would do that in Germany or France either," he emphasizes.

Germany is "perhaps not our favorite, but definitely our most important ally," says the American.

He appealed to Chancellor Olaf Scholz: “Most of Europe will follow Germany.

This is a chance for Chancellor Scholz to say we will defend Ukraine and help win back their territories.”  

Manfred Weber on Germany's role in the Ukraine war: "Then the impression would be that Germany is to blame"

Then Illner directs the focus on arms deliveries from Germany to the Ukraine.

"We do a lot.

The insinuation that you don't keep promises, that you don't do enough, annoys me," says annoyed Claudia Roth.

Gwendolyn Sasse explains: "The vehemence with which Germany is being criticized from Poland and the Baltic countries has not just started to build up now." For years, people there felt ignored by German politics when it came to relations with Russia.

Sasse cites “not only, but also Nord Stream” as an example.

Journalist Deniz Yücel explains why the anger is currently being discharged: "Germany is not a hippie commune." It has a large armaments industry and supplies countries such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

"They just didn't want to deliver to Ukraine,

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Manfred Weber sums up Germany's special role in the conflict: "If Kyiv were to fall today, there would be the impression across Europe, maybe even worldwide, that Germany is to blame." At the end of June, the heads of state and government will meet in Brussels.

The question will be whether Ukraine will be granted candidate status for accession to the European Union.

"All the heads of government I speak to tell me: I don't get a signal from the Chancellery - not even from the Élysée Palace." Weber speaks of "a failure of the government": "The two countries that should lead are doing it not.” Surprisingly clearly, the EPP chairman praised the Greens around Annalena Baerbock: “There are accents that I appreciate very much.”

Military expert Ben Hodges believes that Ukraine can win the war in Ukraine: "We can already see that the Russian army is exhausted.

Towards the end of the year, the Ukrainian armed forces will be able to push the Russian soldiers back to the lines in February." The USA is aiming for the full reunification of Ukraine, even if this could lead to lengthy negotiations, "hopefully not 45 years like in Germany".  

Conclusion of the "Maybrit Illner" talk

Without concessions, Turkey will not agree to the admission of Finland and Sweden to NATO.

"Erdogan has political power," says Claudia Roth.

As Gwendolyn Sasse says, the Eastern European states' critical attitude towards Germany was built up over years of ignoring Russian relations.

A clear stance on the part of Germany and France regarding the acceptance of Ukraine as a candidate for EU membership is missing for almost the entire round.

Manfred Weber even speaks of "a failure of the government".

Despite this, former US Lieutenant General Ben Hodges believes in a positive outcome for Ukraine in the conflict with Putin.