CDU-Röttgen attacks Scholz on ARD because of weapons policy: "No coincidence, not to deliver"

Created: 06/14/2022, 12:14 p.m

Frank Plasberg's guests at "hart aber fair" on June 13th, 2022 © ARD Mediathek (Screenshot)

"Hart aber Fair" is about empathy and war fatigue.

In the end, however, there is once again the question of weapons

Berlin – Robert Habeck is the “senior declaring minister of this government” – Frank Plasberg opens his Monday talk with this bon mot.

And has the senior explainer explain the relationship between the Germans and the Ukraine war in a clip.

"It takes getting used to," says Habeck.

"To all sorts of things." Plasberg asked the question of the evening: "Summer is coming, the war stays: How long does our compassion last?"

The sociologist Armin Nassehi has a simple explanation for getting used to it: the constant barrage of bad news.

"You don't have to look far to find horror.

We see terrible pictures in the 'Tagesschau' in the evenings and we get used to these pictures.

You can hardly do otherwise."

"You can also call it blunting," says Plasberg, unintentionally marking the discursive high point.

At least as far as the original topic of the evening is concerned.

Because the core question of the show has already been answered.

However, Plasberg asks again: "Are we losing our ability to empathize?"

Hard but fair (ARD): "Repetition is the enemy of attention" - in war as well as in climate change

Nassehi repeats what he just said, and precisely this repetition develops a surprising, almost philosophical momentum of its own: "If you repeat things, the information value is lower," says Nassehi.

He cites another example: "Who can actually still hear the topic of climate change?" If the thesis of man-made climate change is constantly and exclusively reported, but none of the hundreds of scientific studies that contradict this CO2 thesis, then the discussion dies and the permanent repetition wins.

"Repetition is the enemy of attention," says Nassehi.

And so that everyone in the group understands what the sociologist is doing here, he demonstratively repeats himself for the third time and this time with an announcement.

Quite an amusing moment that evening.

Oleksandra Bienert, born

Ukrainian, annoyed that the empathy of the Germans for the suffering in Ukraine has gone to sleep.

She starts a wake-up call: "It's a war summer for us in Europe," she says.

"And here too", with which she prophesies Germany what could come.

Tough but fair (ARD): "Russia is speculating that we won't hold out"

When Plasberg explicitly directs the next question to military expert Claudia Major, the evening takes a turn.

Suddenly it's all about weapons for Ukraine.

Which?

How many?

When finally?

Because Major has to focus strictly on weapons and their killing potential due to his job.

She therefore answered Plasberg's question "Do you feel the need to escape from these gloomy images?" soberly: "I think you can approach these gloomy images with an analytical distance." For her, emotion and empathy have negative connotations.

"Russia is speculating that we won't hold out because we're actually soft."

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The SPD politician Michael Müller reacted to this thesis of the military expert in an unusually emotional and sensitive way.

There is still "a lot of solidarity and so much help" among the German population, he says.

One must also think of the famine in Africa, which is promoted by the war in Ukraine.

"I'm happy about your image of humanity," Plasberg praises the new empathy, because after all it was Müller who, as Governing Mayor of Berlin, answered peaceful demonstrations with water cannons.

Norbert Röttgen (CDU) now draws the line back to Robert Habeck, whom he also praises and at the same time criticizes harshly.

"I think Habeck is a good explainer, but I didn't like that explanation."

Tough but fair (ARD): The Chancellor and the allegations of "the cloudy, the "Scholzomatigen"

Action for Frank Plasberg.

He wants to "give a name" to politics.

And that of the Federal Chancellor.

"Scholz is accused of being indecisive, of being vague, of being cloudy, of being Scholz-like," says Plasberg.

But it is “a management task”, which is also what Claudia Major demands.

There is “still a little room for improvement” in the political leadership in Germany.

That's Plasberg too spongy.

“Are you in the diplomatic service or a military expert?” he asks provocatively.

Major shoots back.

"In the debate, we quickly get into a beauty contest, a beauty contest." The question is not who delivers more, France or Germany.

The question is, what does Ukraine need?

And the answer for them is clear: “Heavy weapons, anti-aircraft, artillery, armored vehicles, tanks.”

"Mr. Müller is getting restless," observes Plasberg and pulls out a survey as a counterpoint to this thesis.

According to this, 43 percent of Germans are of the opinion that arms deliveries should be held back so as not to provoke Russia and risk a new world war.

The CDU politician Norbert Röttgen does not accept that.

He sees the war as a struggle for political success: "That can't be the criterion.

War and peace, you can't say, now I'll see how I look in the opinion polls."

Tough but fair (ARD): These guests discussed the Ukraine war with Frank Plasberg

• Prof. Dr.

  Armin Nassehi

  (sociologist)

• Oleksandra Bienert

  (Ukrainian)

• Claudia Major

  (military expert; heads the security policy research group of the Stiftung Wissenschaft und Politik in Berlin)

• Michael Müller

  (SPD, member of the Foreign Affairs Committee)

• Norbert Röttgen

  (CDU member of the Bundestag)

But Müller has another survey in his cartridge belt: According to it, even 70 percent of Germans would rather have a diplomatic solution in Ukraine than more weapons and more deaths.

“These numbers reflect what is happening to all of us,” says Müller.

He regrets that it is always "very quickly, also in this discussion again, after a few minutes, about the weapons".

Müller warns: "We can't ignore the whole path of diplomacy." With this sentence, of all things, the close-up of the face of the military expert comes into the picture.

Claudia Major reacts with a mixture of helplessness and bewilderment.

And Müller continues: “What can still become of the Ukraine conflict?

What if it keeps escalating?” This concern of the people must be taken seriously.

“The Chancellor's deliberation is presented as hesitation.

For Major, however, it is clear that Ukraine "does not have a choice between war and peace, but between war and occupation".

You can see that the Russians are now doing to Ukraine what Ukraine is said to have done to the Russian minority in the east of the country for years: bans on the other language, human suffering, shootings.

"If Ukraine doesn't get Western weapon systems, it can't defend itself and it will be overrun."

Plasberg is now recording French President Emmanuel Macron, who sees France as a mediating force.

According to Macron, he “can no longer count the conversations I have had with Vladimir Putin since December.

All in all probably 100 hours.

One must not humiliate Russia.” Norbert Röttgen thinks that is too much: “This sentence has nothing to do with reality,” he blurts out.

“Russia is the aggressor.

The war must not have been worthwhile for Putin.” Counter-question from Plasberg: “Is it still worth talking to Putin?” Röttgen resolutely: “No, not at the moment.”

Hard but fair (ARD): CDU-Röttgen attacks Scholz because of weapons policy: "No coincidence, not to deliver"

In his balance sheet, the CDU man also takes Chancellor Scholz to court without mercy.

Röttgen says: "It's not a coincidence, it is the political will of the federal government not to deliver.

There are only excuses.

The reason for this is not communicated.

I can only assume that it is the continuation of the old political thinking: we must always be able to talk to Russia.” He thinks this approach is wrong.

Michael Müller continues to warn: "Despite everything, it is always worthwhile to keep in touch.

A conversation can clear up misunderstandings.

A great danger in wars is that a situation escalates militarily as a result of a misunderstanding.

So conversations are never wrong.”

The audience's reactions, which as usual put together by Plasberg's sidekick Brigitte Büscher, surprised everyone.

It is almost exclusively requests to speak that vote for further and fastest possible deliveries of weapons.

Apparently, viewers have a completely different opinion than the majority of Germans, as was made clear in the surveys cited above.

Hard but fair (ARD) conclusion of the talk

The show quickly lost its thread.

Actually, signs of fatigue were the topic.

But after just a few minutes, the only question was how many weapons Ukraine would finally get and when.

So the show did justice to its topic in a curious way: it was tiring.