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"Enormous supply problems": Lambsdorff near Lanz pessimistic about the gas situation in the midst of the Ukraine war

2022-06-23T10:36:32.596Z

"Enormous supply problems": Lambsdorff near Lanz pessimistic about the gas situation in the midst of the Ukraine war Created: 06/23/2022, 12:25 p.m The guests at "Markus Lanz" (ZDF) on June 22, 2022. © Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF In the case of Markus Lanz, FDP politician Lambsdorff speaks of an “enormous supply problem” with regard to gas. Talk guest Gaub compares the Ukraine war to a television seri



"Enormous supply problems": Lambsdorff near Lanz pessimistic about the gas situation in the midst of the Ukraine war

Created: 06/23/2022, 12:25 p.m

The guests at "Markus Lanz" (ZDF) on June 22, 2022.

© Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF

In the case of Markus Lanz, FDP politician Lambsdorff speaks of an “enormous supply problem” with regard to gas.

Talk guest Gaub compares the Ukraine war to a television series.

Hamburg – "It's getting uncomfortable in Germany," says Markus Lanz at the start of his show.

Contingency plans, industry without electricity and gas, people freezing in their homes - we are all facing us.

The FDP politician Alexander Graf Lambsdorff agrees: "We have an enormous supply problem."

But how can you face the crisis?

The group is divided on this.

Save energy?

Getting overpriced liquid gas from the USA by ship?

Or would you rather squeeze it out of German soil using environmentally harmful fracking?

Bring Russia to the negotiating table to ensure peace in Ukraine and thus gas supplies?

Markus Lanz pokes Lambsdorff: "Did you warn me?"

Lambsdorff fired a broadside at the former chancellor: "What we have not managed to do in 16 years of Merkel is to build a single liquid gas terminal in Germany." But his attack fails.

Lanz turns the lance of the FDP man: "You were there for four years as an FDP.

Did you ever give a loud warning?

I don't have that in my head."

Lambsdorff can't do much to counter that.

Energy economist Claudia Kemfert goes one better: She criticizes the fact that at that time Germany even wanted to build a second pipeline to Russia in order to further increase dependence on Russian gas.

"To plan Nord Stream 2 at a time when Russia is already at war," says Kemfert, "and to increase the dependency again to over 50 percent" - that was "total madness" at the time.

Markus Lanz: Publicist Weimer warns - "The biggest recession we've ever had"

In order to master the current crisis, Kemfert and Lambsdorff recommend so-called auction models.

Businesses are supposed to outbid each other, and the winner gets the gas.

Whether all this will work quickly enough remains to be seen.

Publicist Wolfram Weimer warns of July 11th when the Russian tube will be completely shut down for maintenance work.

"There's a clock ticking," says Lanz.

Kemfert describes the status quo: "Now we're buying the gas from the Asians, and at exorbitant prices.

We're paying a high price for that.” Military expert Florence Gaub, on the other hand, sees Russia's ruler Vladimir Putin only as a player.

Not her only strange comparison, she will increase considerably later.

"If he threatens with the atomic bomb, it's all a kind of theatre.

I called it a PR stunt.

It's political theatre," says Gaub.

"That's what he uses skillfully.

He pulls the strings he has on us very skilfully.” Weimer, on the other hand, takes a more sober view: “We are facing the biggest recession we have ever had.”

Lambsdorff is pleased with the unity of the West: "We now have the EU summit ahead of us, the NATO summit and the G7 summit.

The great nations of the world come together and have a very, very clear statement that they do not accept the way in which Putin is trying to push the borders in Europe here.

I think the unity of Western nations surprised Putin.”

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Markus Lanz: Publicist Weimar sees Western defeat in the "global power struggle"

These guests discussed with Markus Lanz:

  • Wolfram Weimer

    (publicist)

  • Florence Gaub

    (security and military expert, futurist)

  • Alexander Graf Lambsdorff

    (FDP politician)

  • Claudia Kemfert

    (energy economist)

"Of course that's not true globally," says Weimer, directing attention to the other direction on the globe.

"The Chinese are helping him, it's scary.

We didn't win the Asian region.” Nobody outside the small so-called “Western world” speaks of a war of aggression.

Weimer explains: "To be honest, we lost the global power struggle to isolate Russia." Gaub agrees: "Many Arab states, African states, they actually prefer to remain neutral."

Markus Lanz: Incidental costs as social explosives - "But something like that"

Lanz makes it clear that the consequences of the sanctions will not have to be borne by Russia, but by the West itself.

"We now have a real inflation problem." For many consumers in Germany, the utility bill will be "up to four times higher".

Claudia Kemfert calls the result social explosive.

"But something like that," says Lanz.

With a brief description of the situation, Lanz makes it clear how much the western sanctions backfire: “There are rows of ships on the world’s oceans that turn off the GPS and can no longer be tracked.

Russian ships or ships on behalf of Russia that bring oil to India, for example.

The Indians process petroleum in incredible quantities and then sell it back to us for a lot of money.

German taxpayers pay for it. It's crazy."

Markus Lanz: Weimer doubts "sanctions policy" - "doesn't really work."

Weimer also gives German politicians a bad report: "I'm losing more and more hope that our sanctions policy will have any effect in Russia.

It creates a war, a shortage, prices rise and in the end he still benefits from it.

In truth, our sanctions policy doesn't work.” For him, the drama goes even further: “If the Chinese are now with the Russians, then strategically we have lost something in the world political power game.

Even if we don't want to hear it at all."

Lambsdorff cannot encourage the group: “China will no longer be the market for us.

We're walking into a cold war.

We now have the interwar period between the first cold war and the second cold war.

That's what we have to adjust to.” Harsh words.

That is why Gaub warns not to warn too much.

"Future research calls it the Cassandra phenomenon: the worse the news you deliver, the more likely it is that you won't be listened to." keep going."

The moderator finds "it's interesting what's suddenly being discussed, especially from the green side, what taboos are suddenly falling".

Nuclear power is up to date again, the Greens even want coal-fired power plants back.

Even the extremely environmentally harmful gas fracking is suddenly an issue.

Kemfert counters: "We are in a serious situation and this serious situation must result in measures".

She recommends a "booster program" in the spirit of Lauterbach, but, like the Minister of Health, cannot avoid listing the disadvantages: "You have to press water and chemicals deep underground at enormous expense." There were earthquakes in Holland .

The groundwater is contaminated.

People can ignite the air that comes out of the ground and sometimes out of the faucet with a lighter.

In short:

Economic politician Lambsdorff would like to look at the numbers.

"We have the special fund..." he begins, but Lanz interrupts him immediately.

"Can we please get rid of the word special assets and say special debts.

As a taxpayer in this country, I value it.

A fortune you don't have is not a fortune.”

Markus Lanz: FDP politician Lambsdorff - In "a tsunami situation" you have to rely on nuclear power

But how to get the situation under control?

Kemfert lists three reasons that speak against the continued operation of nuclear power plants: the Atomic Energy Act, the safety requirements and the testing of the fuel elements.

"You need a longer lead time," she says.

"The three reasons are not," counters Weimer.

"In truth, it's the fourth: It's just too difficult for the Greens to say yes to nuclear power again." Lambsdorff agrees: It's not about a fundamental turnaround back to nuclear power.

But "in a tsunami situation" the extension is necessary.

A somewhat unfortunate metaphor, considering the actual tsunami situation that caused the 2011 Fukushima disaster.

Lambsdorff is reminiscent of old times of crisis.

Saving energy by law is fundamentally wrong.

It's reminiscent of the idea of ​​the bumper stickers from the 1980s that said "I'm an energy saver."

Everyone took part voluntarily.

It was an idea of ​​his uncle, Otto Graf Lambsdorff, who later became the first FDP politician in office to be convicted of tax evasion in the Flick affair.

Lanz is now also wallowing in the past and asking about a “car-free Sunday” like it was in the 1970s.

Lambsdorff waves it off: "In the Eifel, in the Bavarian Forest, in the Uckermark, if you make a car-free Sunday there, then you also make a grandma-free Sunday and that doesn't have to be.

Markus Lanz zu Lambsdorff: "Then visit your grandmother on Saturday."

Lanz sulks: "The fact that grandma is always brought out is really below our level, really." Lambsdorff replies: "That's the full life!

The talk presenter counters: "Then visit your grandmother on Saturday, what's the problem?"

The moderator turns to Ukraine, to the actual “reason why we are discussing all this.

Because there is this terrible war".

Here, too, Weimer has a very sober view: “The truth is: Ukraine will not win this war.” He calls for ceasefire negotiations and asks rhetorically: “Can we just watch 300 to 500 young people being slaughtered every day.

That gives me a big stomach ache.”

"But that's not our decision," interjects Lanz.

"Yes, I think so," says Weimer.

"I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you at all," interjects Gaub.

The military expert talks about artillery and anti-aircraft guns, the dance of weapons, the constant back and forth. And comes to the conclusion: "I find it cynical to say that Ukraine cannot win the war."

Lanz wants to know the exact background: he is holding his hand in the way that is so typical for him: two fingers clenched on the outstretched hand, as if he were about to hand the other person a spoon.

Lambsdorff accepts the virtual cutlery, but doesn't have a particularly palatable answer.

"Macron and Scholz call Putin regularly," he says.

“The results are soberingly diplomatic to describe.

They're actually appalling because there's a real hateful obduracy on the other side.” But Lambsdorff also wants to offer some hope: “There's a role for diplomacy,” he says.

"It's very discreet, it takes place behind the scenes, and that's where it has to stay at the moment."

Weimer starts a new attempt.

He cannot understand Gaub's saying that the dance of arms always goes back and forth.

"It's not a dance for me!" He brings Henry Kissinger into play.

He was a great mediator, solving completely deadlocked war situations between the USA and China, between Israel and Egypt.

Someone like Kissinger is the right man to "enter a mode of negotiation".

Gaub sticks with it.

She prefers to “resolve the conflict properly”.

And with guns.

Markus Lanz: Florence Gaub - "The first season is usually the most interesting, and then it flattens out."

She has a remarkably crooked picture ready for the Ukraine war: "If you compare it to any TV series, then the first season is usually the most interesting, and then it levels off." A certain boredom often follows.

The fact that people die every day in this "boredom" plays a subordinate role in their comparison.

"This status can certainly drag on all summer."

Political scientist Florence Gaub as a guest on "Markus Lanz" (ZDF).

© Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF

In order to put the crooked picture in the right frame, Lanz has a few war pictures played in.

He cannot understand Gaub's reasoning because "I find it difficult to compare it to a television series".

Markus Lanz: Conclusion of the talk

Lanz at its best: Another discussion like at the gaming table.

From the warm, homely studio, it is discussed how and with which weapons one can make which land gains and win a war.

Wolfram Weimer was a benevolent warner.

He sees the turn of diplomacy.

The distasteful comparison of the war in Ukraine to a TV series lent a cynical undertone to the discussion.

(Michael Goermann)

Source: merkur

All news articles on 2022-06-23

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