Petro Poroshenko, former president of Ukraine: “It is impossible to reach an agreement. Putin wants to kill us."

Strong bodyguards guard the room in which Petro Poroshenko —former president of Ukraine, leader of the opposition and one of the richest men in the country— receives EL PAÍS.

A few kilometers from this office at the headquarters of his party in kyiv, the Russian bombs fell at the end of February, when Vladimir Putin began the invasion of the country.

The situation is now calmer in the capital, but it is still extremely difficult.

On the same day of the interview, on Thursday, European leaders accepted Ukraine as a candidate to enter the EU, a "historic" decision for which the former president attributes much of the credit for the rapprochement with Europe that he promoted during his mandate. .

In his five tumultuous years in power, he has had to deal with Crimea already annexed by Moscow, the rise of Moscow-backed separatists in the eastern Donbass region and the failed peace talks in Minsk, Belarus.

With a fortune that

estimated last year at 1,600 million dollars (around 1,500 million euros), in his team they remember that he has spent more than 10 million euros out of his pocket to support the defense of the country.

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Last minute of the war in Ukraine, live

Poroshenko (Bolgrad, 56 years old) chooses each word with great care.

Before the war, he accused President Volodymyr Zelensky — who defeated him in the 2019 elections — of lacking firmness in the face of the Russian threat and of promoting a treason trial that could have landed him in jail.

But everything changed on February 24.

Poroshenko now prefers not to talk about Zelensky.

He has to close ranks.

"There will be time to discuss those issues when we have won," he says.

All efforts must be concentrated on expelling the invader.

And, once victory is achieved, in bringing Putin to international justice, he assures him.

Ask.

At the beginning of the war, the fierce Ukrainian resistance surprised the world.

But the Russians are now gaining momentum, especially on the eastern front.

Response.

Yes, our Armed Forces surprised the world.

And I'm proud that I, as Supreme Commander-in-Chief since 2014, created these forces.

Putin underestimated us and the world overestimated the so-called second largest army in the world.

We also surprised from the first hours of the war with our unit.

I met with Zelensky.

We said that all political disputes should be put aside until victory.

And the third surprise is the unity and solidarity of the world with Ukraine and the creation of a great anti-Putin coalition.

Q.

French President Emmanuel Macron has said that it is up to Ukraine alone to decide when victory has come and when this war can end.

What is the minimum requirement for that moment to come?

R.

Since 2014 I have established the principle of 'nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine'.

And these words of mine are today a Bible.

Every day, Ukraine loses the best of the country: our sons and daughters and our infrastructure.

Every day that peace is delayed, Ukraine pays a huge price.

How can we bring peace closer?

With three things: guns, guns and guns.

We need long-distance artillery, anti-aircraft missiles, tanks, fighter planes, and anything else that can help us kick the Russians out.

And we need sanctions and embargoes.

The seventh package of sanctions is vital, which must include a complete blockade of Russian exports.

So we can unlock the ports of the Black Sea and save the world from hunger.

Q.

Are you afraid that Western countries will push Ukraine into an agreement before they have achieved their goals?

R.

It is simply impossible.

The territorial integrity of Ukraine is not negotiated.

How would the Spanish react if to achieve peace they had to give up the Balearic or Canary Islands?

There is no chance that we will pay that price.

Why is it difficult to reach a compromise with Putin?

Because there are no gray areas, just black and white.

I know because I have a long experience of negotiating with him.

It is impossible to reach an agreement, because Putin wants to kill us.

Just like he has done in Mariupol or Bucha.

We are not looking for Russian land or money.

Just leave us in Europe and take their troops.

Putin wants to wipe a country with 1,000 years of history off the map.

It's crazy.

P.

But the economic and food crisis caused by the war worries more and more.

Your allies may start to show this fatigue and look for a way out.

A.

This is the Russian narrative.

I ask you not to repeat it.

Q.

I try not to.

R.

Putin has been repeating for more than four months that Europe is showing fatigue in the face of the war in Ukraine.

But it is not true.

Does he know why?

Because the help of the allies is not for Ukraine.

It is an investment by the Western world in its own security.

This is not a war against Ukraine, but against the Western world.

We Ukrainians are protecting everyone.

And by giving us weapons, the West moves closer to peace.

Everyone understands that now.

That is why 60% of Europeans support the surrender of weapons and 70% support the European integration of Ukraine.

It had never happened before.

Please help us save the world.

And how can we stop the war?

Europe.

How?

Cutting off Kremlin funding to European media and politicians who receive support from Russia.

Q.

Who are you thinking of?

R.

Gazprom spends 4,000 million dollars a year.

It is easy to investigate where this money goes: to certain media outlets and NGOs;

politicians like Marine Le Pen or some Austrian party that fortunately is no longer in government;

and to some of our neighbors.

We are all interested

Europe.

Q.

As president of Ukraine, you negotiated the Minsk agreements with Putin.

What did you learn from these negotiations?

R.

Point number one: never trust Putin.

You can say: "No, no, we will not attack Ukraine."

But they will.

If Putin says, "Okay, we withdraw our troops," don't believe him.

He only understands strength.

If he is going to negotiate, you have to be strong.

The second point that my experience has taught me is not to be afraid of Putin.

If you are afraid, if you are weak, you will lose.

P.

What would you say if you had him face to face?

R.

I would be very happy.

It would be a great honor for me to see him in The Hague behind bars.

I think that is exactly the right place for Putin.

I will definitely go see him in Holland.

P.

You took the reins of the country in 2014, a few months after the annexation of Crimea and the start of the war in Donbas. Did the West then understand the seriousness of Putin's threat?

R.

The events of 2014 cannot be analyzed with the eyes of 2022. So it was scary to use the word war.

I used it and they told me about an internal conflict in eastern Ukraine.

But no, this is an assault.

I'm proud that it looks like this now.

P.

Has Putin's aggression achieved the unity of the Ukrainians and their definitive fit in the EU?

R.

If you ask me if it is thanks to Putin that Ukraine is a candidate country or that 75% or 80% of our citizens support integration into NATO, I answer no.

These achievements are due first of all to Ukraine.

But Putin's madness has indeed provided us with global solidarity and has helped us return to the European family.

Paying, yes, a huge price.

The application for the EU is sealed with the blood of thousands and thousands of Ukrainians who have given their lives to take this step.

P.

What possibilities do you see of reaching an agreement to unblock the port of Odessa and alleviate the world food crisis?

A.

I know exactly how to do it.

Just as yachts belonging to Russian oligarchs have been seized in Barcelona, ​​all commercial ships with Russian exports should be requisitioned.

80% of these exports are made by sea.

This would cut off the money supply to Russia.

Europe pays the Kremlin $250 billion each year for oil and gas.

Second, that NATO convoys escort commercial ships from Odessa, which operate in Ukrainian waters.

And thirdly, if we had anti-ship missiles in the Black Sea, we would scare the Russians.

Remember what I told you before: never trust Putin and never be afraid of him.

Q.

Before the war, you accused President Zelensky of not having prepared for the threat.

R.

Who was prepared?

Who wasn't?

We must stop asking those questions.

We must maintain unity, fight and mobilize efforts to destroy the invader.

We all have friends and family members killed and a third of our population displaced.

This is not like we see it on TV.

It is the war in front of you.

P.

It is difficult to lead the opposition like this.

R.

Now I am neither former president nor leader of the opposition party.

There is also no sitting president.

We are all soldiers.

Zelensky, me and everyone.

Perhaps it is impossible to explain this in this room where we speak.

But now in Ukraine you know that at any moment you can be killed.

In each of my actions, even in each word of this interview, I must take into account whether it is useful for Ukraine.

If it helps to bring my country to the European Union, if it helps us to become stronger and bring victory.

This is not about Poroshenko, but about Ukraine.

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