Klingbeil winds at Lanz on ZDF – "Winter can be very, very hard"

Created: 06/30/2022, 12:17 p.m

The guests at “Markus Lanz” (ZDF) on June 29th, 2022.

© Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF

Expert at Markus Lanz: The gas emergency threatens “terrible scenarios” – Chancellor thinks in typical Scholz manner: “We actually have no problem at all.”

Hamburg – "You shocked the whole country yesterday," says Markus Lanz at the opening of his show.

He means Klaus Müller, head of the Federal Network Agency.

“In three months, people won't be able to pay their bills.

Why are you doing the party killer right now?”

The addressee gives a response that is even more disturbing: “The gas prices we are seeing now are the prices from last fall.

Because of the war, prices went up again.” But as a consumer, you can also do something.

Not just changing the shower head and taking a shorter shower, as Vice Chancellor Robert Habeck (Greens) suggests.

"We know that many gas boilers are not set up well," says Müller.

"You're wasting money." For ten days, the Nord Stream gas pipeline has been throttled by 60 percent.

This is a breach of contract on the Russian side.

You have to seriously prepare yourself for very hard times.

Stern-Mann Schmitz: "Scholz thinks in typical Scholz manner: We don't really have a problem."

As if to counteract this statement, Lanz has the most recent interview with Olaf Scholz recorded, for which the Chancellor was heavily criticized.

When asked if he had any advice for the population, he answered there briefly and succinctly: "Nope".

And then even adds a little bored: "At the moment we still have enough energy."

Stern editor-in-chief Gregor Peter Schmitz sees a pattern: "Scholz thinks in typical Scholz manner: We don't really have a problem." And Lanz asks SPD leader Lars Klingbeil directly: "How do you find this economical, clear way, to communicate?

Do you like that?”

"That's nothing that surprises me at Scholz.

I have nothing wrong with that,” replies Klingbeil.

“Does that really do justice to the seriousness of the situation?” Lanz asks.

The SPD leader then made an honest and yet ineffective effort to add content to the chancellor's staccato explanations.

"What the Federal Chancellor made clear is that politicians are not shirking their responsibility and saying: We're passing the problems on to the citizens." Schmitz describes it more succinctly: "I think he's afraid to speak the truth. "

Klingbeil apparently notices that his attempts at explanation are a bit too extensive.

"I don't want to be the Chancellor's translator here," he says.

"Yes, you have to," insists Lanz.

The political scientist Liana Fix interprets the Chancellor's statement somewhat differently: he apparently does not want to stir up panic among the population, "but it is a situation that is very serious".

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Nord Stream 1: "Then we come into very, very uncomfortable water"

"It's a question of political leadership," says Schmitz.

The head of the Federal Network Agency has his say again.

“We are not storing as much as we have in the last few days and weeks.

This makes me a little worried and tense.

The worst case scenario could be that the Nord Stream 1 is not increased back to 40 percent or any load after maintenance, and then we get into very, very uncomfortable water The situation "can't just be encountered in autumn or winter, but now!"

"It's a rush to say in the summer, we've had enough," Lanz grins.

"We all know that climate change has not progressed so far that the German winter ends after two and a half months.

So in that respect: do we have a problem or not?” It is the primal fear of politicians to “speak the truth,” answers Schmitz.

"Telling people they're going to lose something.

That's what's ahead of us."

Lanz has a video snippet played with Robert Habeck, those flippant words for which Habeck received applause but also criticism: "If someone says I'll only help if I get another fifty euros', I would say: You won't get it, Age."

These guests discussed with Markus Lanz:

• Lars Klingbeil

  (SPD Chairman)

• Klaus Müller

  (President of the Federal Network Agency for Digitization, Climate Neutrality and Resilience)

• Gregor Peter Schmitz

  (Editor-in-Chief, Illustrated Stern)

• dr

  Liana Fix

  (historian and political scientist)

Lanz laughs and turns to Lars Klingbeil again: “You can say it like that.

Very concrete.

Better?” Klingbeil defends: “It's not about better or worse.” Lanz: “Yes!” Now Klingbeil is clearly at the end with his self-written Scholz Wikipedia.

He tries a few more sentences, but in the end he can only answer in general terms.

Scholz "said in the government statement that hard times were ahead of us".

Lanz doesn't give up, talks about Germans who won't be able to pay their gas bills in three months.

"In three months!

How do we do that?

Who pays this?

In three months!"

Klingbeil: “The state will probably have to spend money there”

Bladeaxe squirms.

"First of all, we have to do everything we can to ensure that gas is available because that has an impact on the price." - "But there are already people who say I have a gas bill that I didn't expect," replies Lance.

Klingbeil responded with a report from the Bundestag: "That's why we've already taken 30 billion into our hands with two relief packages.

How do we manage to get through this difficult situation with political design.

The state will probably have to spend money there.”

Lanz recognizes the argumentative plight of the SPD man and gives in: "I don't want to torment you." But Klingbeil doesn't want alms.

"You always do that.

It's your job." He has caught himself a bit, starts again: "It will be a national effort.

The guy can be trusted with anything. ”He doesn't mean Scholz, but Putin.

But even a Lars Klingbeil has to close with an extremely gloomy prospect: "The winter can be very, very hard."

Expert on gas emergency: "Terrible scenarios"

This is where Schmitz starts again: “Politics will no longer be able to compensate for this.

Interest rates are rising, the pots are empty.” Klingbeil can only agree: “There will be people who will be hit very hard.”

Time for a one-player.

Lanz has a graphic shown that shows the filling levels of the gas storage tanks and models.

Netzagentur boss Müller calls them “terrible scenarios” and points out: “We have to think about two winters, not one.” All curves in the graphic end in winter 2023 and are already much lower there than now.

But the big end would not come until 2024, according to Müller.

"Let us.

remain in a market-like system as long as possible"

Level two of the gas emergency plan is currently in place in Germany.

"What must not happen under any circumstances is level three," says Lanz and looks at Müller, who is connected via video screen: "Mr. Müller, you are breathing heavily."

"That would be a gas emergency," he replies.

“The cabinet has to make that decision.

In a gas emergency, we would have to decide who would get gas at all.” He almost begs: “Let's stay in a market-like system as long as we can.

We hear that German gas importers are now procuring gas.” And Müller describes where this gas comes from.

Lanz laughs: "So that means we scrape together everything that somehow works".

Yes, says Müller, and "we are paying a very, very high price for it, and from a certain point in time the industry and private households will notice that."

Klingbeil remembers the past: "It was very, very easy for many people to say: We are now turning off the gas tap." "Friedrich Merz," interjects Lanz.

"I didn't want to name any names now," replies Klingbeil.

While the Germans are suffering from the sanctions that were supposed to hit Russia, others are taking advantage of the situation, Liana Fix clarifies.

“Of course India and China are now benefiting from insanely cheap Russian oil.

We have to try to turn the tables and put an end to this absurd effect.

Only the consequences are clear to everyone.

At stage three of the gas emergency plan, "a completely new form of distribution battle will come our way," Schmitz states.

"That's a social challenge." And Lanz adds: "A Darwinian moment that we are currently experiencing."

Lanz on ZDF: Germany must be a leading power.

Also militarily?

The fact that Germany is the only country in the world to impose such severe sanctions and is also the only country in the world to suffer so severely from the consequences itself leads Lanz to quote Klingbeil, which recently caused a stir: "We have to take on a leadership role." Klingbeil should to explain oneself.

"I talked about Germany having to be a leading power," he clarifies, without explaining the semantic difference in more detail.

Lanz asks again: "Militarily too?".

Blade cleaver falters.

"This also means that we have to be militarily strong." He tries to put his statement into perspective.

“But leadership means a lot today, and not just in military terms.

It's important to me that you deal with it."

"You make the chancellor, but you formulate that and not the chancellor," Lanz once again aimed a broadside at Olaf Scholz and recorded his G7 press conference, at which he recently answered a journalist with the terse "Yes, I can - that's it “ dismissed.

"It's also important to see the dilemma they're in," he says, and again defends Scholz.

The Brics states represent three billion people of the world population, the G7 only for 770 million.

“World trade is declining.

I'll put it this way: Our heyday is over."

But Liana Fix misses political unity.

"In the case of the Brics, you have to honestly say that it's more a show than substance." In the case of Russia, however, you're dealing with an imperial country.

"So I'm not surprised that it takes time for this to be accepted by society, because for decades we have placed the narrative of historical reconciliation in the foreground and have waited too long to pour the clear wine on the population." Germany has nothing to offer, which would not “drive Russia into the arms of China”.

"Unfortunately, that train has left the station." But the fact that Finland and Sweden would now join NATO made the Baltic States particularly happy.

This would create a new protective wall.

"Would we be willing to do the big thing then?" - "It has to happen then."

"Can you understand this belly rumbling that many people have about this concentration of weapons?" Lanz wanted to know from Klingbeil.

And adds something cryptic to it.

"Would we then be prepared to do the really big thing?" Klingbeil suddenly became very clear and unequivocal: "That has to happen then." "Mistakes have been made in the last few years".

He could now also clear away completely with a whole generation.

But he doesn't want that.

Conclusion of the talk with Markus Lanz:

Lars

Klingbeil spoke the most and said the least.

Liana Fix was clear and competent in her statements, Gregor Peter Schmitz a little too cheerful, considering the seriousness of the situation.

But perhaps only exaggerated optimism will help over the coming years.