Weber on "Maybrit Illner": "Germany is a war target" - For Nouripour, the Bundeswehr is not fit for military service

Created: 07/01/2022 12:56 p.m

The guests at "Maybrit Illner" (ZDF) on June 30th, 2022.

© ZDF Mediathek (Screenshot)

NATO needs 15,000 German soldiers.

Omid Nouripour sees no military fitness for "Maybrit Illner", for Manfred Weber Germany is now a war target. 

Berlin – At the NATO summit in Madrid a few days ago, it was decided to increase the number of troops to 300,000.

15,000 of them are said to be German soldiers.

Can this solve the "greatest crisis since the Second World War", as Maybrit Illner calls it?

The moderator talks about this at the beginning of her program in an interview with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.

The Norwegian politician speaks of a "hot war" and underlines the importance of Western support for Ukraine.

"But," warns Stoltenberg, "there must be no escalation, that will lead to even more deaths, to even more suffering."

The former Norwegian prime minister twice dodged questions about a possible outcome of the war.

Instead, Stoltenberg formulates his "main message": more heavy weapons, more modern equipment that needs to be delivered more quickly.

The delivery of Leopard tanks from Spain is "a good idea".  

Then Illner tried it for the third time: "What do you think victory would be like for Ukraine?

Is it the status quo of February 23, 2022, or should the West fight for more?” The NATO Secretary General calls for “more to be done” and is now making a forecast.

"This war will probably end at the negotiating table." There is a close connection between the positions in the negotiations and the situation on the battlefield.

“It is up to Ukraine under what conditions it can sign a peace agreement.

It is our responsibility that she gets the strongest position in the negotiations.”

"Maybrit Illner" - these guests discussed with:

• Omid Nouripour (Greens)

  - Party leader

• Manfred Weber (CSU)

  – Chairman of the EPP, switched on

• Jens Stoltenberg

  – NATO Secretary General, connected

• Claus Kleber

  - former "heute journal" moderator, switched on

• Nicole Deitelhoff -

  Professor of International Relations, connected

• Stefanie Babst –

  former NATO chief strategist

Omid Nouripour (Greens) has no doubts that Germany can provide the agreed 15,000 soldiers.

The party leader of the Greens refers to the state of the Bundeswehr and argues that the military capability must first be restored.

"This is a constitutional mandate, the defense of the alliance," emphasizes Nouripour, who also insists on blaming Manfred Weber's Union colleagues for it.

The switched-on Manfred Weber (CSU) takes part in the talk show at short notice after Markus Söder (CSU) canceled two hours before the show.

The EPP President in the European Parliament welcomes the admission of Finland and Sweden to NATO, "two countries that belong to our family of values".

For Weber it is the "best news" that Finland and Sweden are now part of the "security family".

Weber repeatedly emphasizes the cohesion of the West, but at the same time he warns: "Today we are not a party to the war, but we are a war aim.

Putin hates our way of life, our freedom, our democracy.”   

"Maybrit Illner": Claus Kleber makes it clear - "It's about fighting back massive attacks"

Stefanie Babst points out that simply selecting 15,000 soldiers is not enough to comply with the NATO agreement.

This number must be multiplied at least threefold in order to be able to achieve this troop strength permanently, partly because of the necessary rotation.

"It's about a permanent brigade, that's not an easy task," says Babst.

also read

Putin "doesn't have a long life ahead of him": Ukraine intelligence chief with spicy claims

Putin's henchman Medvedev draws a red line for NATO - "that's forever"

Claus Kleber sees a completely new task for the defense alliance after the NATO summit.

In the Baltic States, NATO soldiers have so far stretched the wire, “this is not a force that can stop the Russian army”.

Now, like the Ukrainian soldiers, it is about fighting back massive attacks.

"This is a task that Germany has never had before, either inside or outside of NATO territory." Kleber wonders whether the reserves are sufficient at all.

And he notes that the public has not yet received this.

“What will the German population say when confronted with the extent of this participation?

How do the parties deal with this in election campaigns?” asks the 66-year-old. 

Kleber is very concerned about the role played by the USA.

Joe Biden is an extraordinarily weak president who hardly finds approval.

In addition, there is no hope among the Democrats.

Kleber describes it as a "tumbling into bankruptcy."

One does not only have to fear for the integrity of the democratic model since the storming of the Capitol.

"What the Western value model can look like without its leader is an open question," says the former Washington correspondent.

"Maybrit Illner": Nouripour and Weber argue about nuclear energy - and are slowed down

In the last block, the group dealt with the sanctions against Russia.

Nicole Deitelhoff notes that the government needs the support of the population for sanctions.

"You have to keep raising the issue of the costs of these sanctions early on and steer them politically in a smart way." Otherwise it would be difficult for the government to maintain the sanctions.

Omid Nouripour interjects: "That's exactly what Putin wants.

He wants solidarity to break down, it's about democracy in Europe.” The Green politician is certain: “Ukraine will win.” However, this could also lead to proxy wars.

"We are at the beginning of a marathon."

The discussion then becomes heated for the first time at the end of the program, when Omid Nouripour and Manfred Weber argue about energy policy.

While the Greens leader doesn't want to know anything about nuclear energy and emphasizes that "all of Europe holds its breath when Russian soldiers walk past Chernobyl," Weber almost bursts his collar: "All of Europe is taking a different path." to ramp up the remaining nuclear power plants during the time of energy shortages.

But Illner intervened: "That's the subject of another program."  

"Maybrit Illner": Conclusion of the talk

The talk guests agree that Ukraine should be supported.

With heavy weapons, but also the increase in the NATO intervention force is appreciated.

However, Claus Kleber warns that the public could react sensitively if German soldiers were actually sent into combat operations.

Nouripour and Kleber stress that the future of democracy in Europe is at stake.

It only gets really heated when Nouripour and Weber argue about nuclear energy, but then the show is almost over.