One moment you are leading reforms that cause a stir - and the next moment you find yourself at risk of being left without a political home.
This is how the last month of former minister Matan Kahana, who announced this week that he is joining the state camp led by Benny Gantz, looks like.
Let's go back a little, how do you feel about the former government?
"I think we acted correctly. I can say that the head of an ultra-Orthodox Yeshiva told me: 'When I realized that it was impossible to establish a right-wing government, I rejoiced.'
It is impossible to form a government that relies on only one party.
Other rabbis also told me this, and it gave me strength.
This is what we want to do in the state camp - to establish a government that relies on the central forces, not on the extremes."
I meet him at the headquarters of the state camp.
He is still in the process of adapting to the new place, explaining to the campaigners how much potential there is in the moderate religious Zionist electorate, which he aims to bring to the party.
Netanyahu.
A government that leans on one side, photo: Olivier Fitosi/Flash 90
In the previous election campaign you called for the establishment of a full right-wing government, and now you want to establish a unity government. What happened in a year?
"We joined this government out of compulsion, but I realized very quickly that the government was lacking. What Gantz wants to do is to bring in the ultra-Orthodox and the Likud as well. Others did not make this change. Silman dismantled this government for a political future. Her excuse was the story of the chametz - after all It's a sketch, there were the same chametz practices as in the Likud government."
But did you focus?
"Matan Kahana was and remains an ideological right-wing man who believes in settlement. Gantz also believes in settlement. I realized that in the current situation of the State of Israel, if I realize all my dreams, my friends from the squadron - this place will be unbearable for them. That's why now we have to wait with the ideological extremes And the exact dreams, to look for the common denominator and establish a broad government, not one that half the people will feel excluded from, because there are so many challenges for the country that we need to do together. This togetherness is a thousand times more important than the fulfillment of all ideologies and dreams."
Gantz
The right person for the job, photo: Oren Ben Hakon
But why is the right-wing ideology of settlement and struggle in the legal system "edge", how did you decide that it is less important?
"Because there is a fifth election system, there is a deepening social divide, there is governmental instability, and this causes hatred between sections of the public. Fixing this thing is our top task. It is better to wait with all the other important ideologies for the sake of unity."
continue to settle down
How does this fit with your association with Eisenkot and Gantz, who are in favor of a Palestinian state?
"I have never heard them say that. I will tell you what we stand for: there is no possibility of applying sovereignty here, and there is no political agreement on the agenda, so we all understand that we need to take care of security, and are doing what we can to reduce the conflict.
"If the Palestinians have a good economic situation and good infrastructure in the Palestinian Authority - this will improve the quality of life and reduce the conflict.
We think that it is necessary to continue to settle in the West Bank where the State of Israel approves."
Minister of Religious Services Matan Kahana on a tour of preparation for the celebration in Miron // Photo: David Cohen Jini
This week Abu Mazen accused Israel of carrying out "50 holocausts in Palestine", a statement that was strongly condemned by the entire political system, including Gantz.
But when Kahana is asked about Gantz's meetings with Abu Mazen - he has a surprising answer.
Are you in favor of meetings with Abu Mazen?
"We do not choose the leaders of our enemies. I am in favor of any meeting that is important for the security of the State of Israel, and if there is something that is required for security - it is a serious mistake not to do it. If I were the Minister of Defense, and I would think that it is necessary to meet with Abu Mazen in order to strengthen the security of Israel - I would do what is necessary. I trust Gantz that when he decides to meet with someone, he sees security before his eyes."
Abu Mazen.
We don't choose the leaders of our enemies,
Are you in favor of YUS sovereignty?
"Sovereignty where there are Jewish settlements is in Israel's interest. Eisenkot will also tell you that this is not a bad option, but such a breakthrough will not happen in the government we are targeting."
But you say that even if there was a possibility for a full right-wing government, which would apply sovereignty and pass a strengthening clause, because of the social divide you prefer a unity government first.
"You set it right".
A discourse of disqualifications
Are you dismissing the Likud?
"We do not engage in a discourse of disqualifications. Our task is to prevent Netanyahu from forming a government of 61. If he does not have 61 - the whole business changes. We have talks with the Likud and the ultra-Orthodox. Do you really think that if Netanyahu fails to form a government for the fifth time, the political structure will remain The same thing? If Netanyahu does not form a government, there will be quick primaries for the leadership of the faction, and then Gantz will be able to unite everyone and form a government of the central forces."
If you are state-minded - why do you disqualify Netanyahu the man? He represents half the people.
"Netanyahu has done great and beautiful things, but today he is dragging us from his personal considerations time and time again to the elections. There is a man here with three indictments. It is impossible for such a man to form a government."
But even a year ago he had three indictments.
"And even a year ago we didn't like it, and now the situation is extreme. On a value level, there is a man here who does not have the good of the country in front of his eyes, but his personal good, and his presence in the political arena is hurting Israel. That is why we need to move forward and form a government without him."
Eisenkot.
We need to move forward, photo: Gideon Markovich
Can he be two in the rotation?
"We will form a government without Netanyahu."
If Netanyahu is acquitted in the trial - is he worthy to form a government?
"Anyone who does not have legal problems and the public chooses him - deserves to be prime minister in Israel."
If you don't form a government, will you join Netanyahu's government?
"By no means. When Bennett announced that he would not run in the upcoming elections, a Likud emissary came to me and offered me an entire world so that Netanyahu would form a government - and I prevented it myself."
Despite your claims, Gafni says he goes with Netanyahu to the opposition as well.
"I would not be impressed by things that are said during an election campaign. Everyone knows that there is talk with the ultra-Orthodox. I believe and hope that if Netanyahu does not reach the 61, the ultra-Orthodox will come. Their place is in the coalition."
Does your joining the party affect your ability to cooperate with them? We heard that they passed messages against you to Gantz.
"I wish I was such a significant figure in politics, that my presence would determine whether there would be a coalition. I recommend not to be impressed by it. Even when I was Minister of Religion, I would talk to the ultra-Orthodox, sometimes under the table."
Almond.
Excellent relations, photo: Oren Ben Hakon
Did it influence Gantz not to take you?
"I don't know what he had in the closed rooms, I know he took me and I'm happy about it."
Will you agree to give up the position of Minister of Religion for cooperation with the ultra-Orthodox?
"I'm not here to arrange a job. As I've already proven, when it was necessary to strengthen the coalition, I knew how to give up a seat in the government, because there are more important things than my seat. Religious and state issues are important to me, but it's more important to me to do things with the ultra-Orthodox, the secular and the traditional . I represent the way of religious and moderate Zionism, which believes that it is necessary to deal with shaping the Jewish identity of the State of Israel - but it should be done together. I am not dealing with my seat, there is always room for compromises."
Why didn't you go with Shaked? She also says she wants a unity government.
"We have excellent relations. All the dealings regarding where I will run were done with great openness. In the end, the issue that stood between us was which government would be formed after the elections. I estimate that after Gadi and I join the state camp, Ayelet will not run in the end."
Did Handel and Ves Atid offer you to run with them?
"Before he connected with Ayelet, a joint run by Yoaz and me was on the agenda. Yesh Atid was also on the agenda. But the state camp has the greatest potential to unite everyone. Besides, I was afraid that Yesh Atid would go with the joint."
torch.
Running with him was on the agenda, photo: Amos Ben Gershom/Leam
The leaders have abandoned
You say you represent religious Zionism. Why would they vote for you?
"It is difficult to find a common denominator between the extremes of religious Zionism. Perhaps the only thing that remains that unites us is that we believe that the State of Israel has a religious meaning. We have disagreements on the other issues: LGBT, conscription of women.
What I did in the Ministry of Religions this year - for many in religious Zionism is a dream come true.
I symbolized for them the aspiration to establish the Jewish identity of Israel.
"For years, our leaders neglected them, until I came and took care of these things, which many religious Zionists believe in. There are many who opposed the government, but said, 'What Kahnah is doing in the Ministry of Religion is a big thing.' represents in the most authentic way.
"Smotrich called not to let people like me into synagogues, and this caused a polemic on the networks. Many in religious Zionism are disgusted by this, and it was caused because of Smotrich - that our public does not want to vote for him. That is why the state camp is a home for our public."
Smotrich.
Caused controversy on the networks, photo: Oren Ben Hakon
Why not Shaked and Handel?
"Shaked is a woman of many virtues, but she is not from the heart of religious Zionism, and Handel did not come to realize her ideology either."
As a lesson from the last government, if you have less than 15 mandates is it good for you to form a government?
"I'm not getting into numerology, we hope to be a big and significant party."
You belong to Eisenkot. Are you a separate group?
"No, we only joined like this for the initial meeting. We are committed to Gantz."
In the previous elections, you said that RAM support terrorism, and not long ago you published a post in favor of cooperation with them. Are they no longer supporters of terrorism in your eyes?
"RAM made a significant process that should be given a chance, and Abbas said that he accepts the State of Israel as Jewish and democratic.
I think it is right that Israeli Arabs will be part of the coalition.
This is the way to reduce the conflict and bring them into society."
On behalf of Ayelet Shaked, it was stated in response: "I am sorry that Matan chose to officially move to the 'Only not Bibi' camp, which boycotts half of the people. This is not the way of religious Zionism, and it is not our way. I wish Matan success in his new path."
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