Ukraine discussion at Lanz: Kretschmer calls for a "broad debate" - and clashes with journalists

Created: 08/25/2022, 11:34 am

The talk show on “Markus Lanz” (ZDF) on August 24th, 2022.

© ZDF Mediathek (Screenshot)

Markus Lanz talked about the Ukraine war and the energy transition.

A heated debate ensued between Saxony's Prime Minister Kretschmer and the other guests.

Hamburg – It takes less than five minutes for Markus Lanz to align the lances.

Everything on confrontation.

The moderator reminds Saxony's Prime Minister Michael Kretschmer of an old quote: "Russia needs more respect," Kretschmer once said.

"How does that statement make you feel today?"

Kretschmer turns the lance around: "I think it's a big problem that we have a narrowed view with one line of argument." The prime minister misses the culture of discussion.

“We need a broad debate, a weighing of arguments, pros and cons.

This is extremely important, especially when it comes to a question as big as war and peace.”

Lanz is enough.

He no longer wants to let the politicians have their say and is reacting exactly as Kretschmer has just criticized.

A few months ago he had prevented Ulrike Guérot, who expressed herself similarly to Kretschmer, from speaking for almost an entire program and received considerable criticism for it.

He is now trying this tactic with Kretschmer.

He literally ignores him and addresses Nadine Lindner instead: "Why does Mr. Kretschmer talk the way he talks?" The addressee reacts as if on cue.

She accuses the politician of opportunism.

Apparently he would talk like that on purpose so that he would get applause from the scene.

Markus Lanz: These guests discussed on the show

• Michael Kretschmer

  (Prime Minister of Saxony, CDU)

• Nadine Lindner

  (journalist, Deutschlandradio)

• Katrin Eigendorf

  (journalist, ZDF)

• Prof. Volker Quaschning

  (energy expert)

Kretschmer is not as easily sidelined as the reserved Professor Guérot.

He grabs the floor again, wants to explain why he is counting on moderation and diplomacy in the war in Ukraine instead of escalation.

But Lanz interrupts him again.

He asks Kretschmer questions that he has just answered.

“Is Putin a war criminal?

Does he want negotiations?” The ZDF editor Katrin Eigendorf, a veteran of journalism, takes over the repetition of the answers.

No, of course Putin is the bad guy, he would not provide "any basis for discussion for negotiations," observes Eigendorf.

The 60-year-old, a senior reporter from the old school, has been steeled by four decades at the forefront of the studio.

She immediately got into an argument with Kretschmer.

Markus Lanz: Kretschmer pleads for the end of the war through negotiations - "the sooner the better"

At some point, the Prime Minister of Saxony became indignant: "We must ensure that a hot war becomes a frozen conflict." This would "only be possible through negotiations, the sooner the better".

But anyone who takes such a position is branded as naïve or as a “Putin understander”.

Eigendorf reacts accordingly.

"What does freezing mean?" she asks deliberately naively.

"I can somehow freeze food in my freezer." Freezing in a war means giving in to Putin's maximum demands.

Diplomacy is not an option, negotiations are a defeat.

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Markus Lanz: Kretschmer warns - "We are throwing the entire world into chaos"

Before Kretschmer can react, Lanz interrupts him.

"I can't quite follow that.

They present something that is basic consensus.

Nobody is of the opinion that this war should not end.” However, Kretschmer had not claimed that at all.

He doesn't let Lanz interrupt him as easily as polite professors, he interrupts him in turn.

"We're having a terrible war and we're throwing the whole world into chaos."

"Stop," calls Lanz.

Five times.

"Who is we?

Who is throwing the world into chaos?

Who?” But Kretschmer is slowly not liking it anymore.

"Mr. Lanz, you can have conversations like this and always try to slip the other person a card..."No," says Lanz quietly, but Kretschmer steps on the gas.

"You have a different opinion than me, I respect that.

And I expect my opinion to be equally valid.

Of course, as the aggressor, Russia has primary responsibility for everything.

But we are all doers.”

Markus Lanz: Eigendorf and Kretschmer in a battle of words - "long since at war with Russia"

Attacks are coming from all sides.

"How do you negotiate with someone who doesn't want to negotiate?" asks Lanz.

And Eigendorf interjects: "Putin is not deviating from his position!" When Kretschmer nails her, she becomes quiet.

“What is your goal now?” he asks the journalist.

"I can't tell you that," replies Eigendorf.

She knows that only a consistent continuation of the war will lead to the goal.

"You can't be serious!" says Kretschmer, stunned.

Eigendorf replies succinctly: "Yes." And she goes one better: "It's not just about Ukraine's sovereignty.

We are already at war with Russia!”

Somewhat surprisingly, Kretschmer interjects how important climate protection is to him.

The argumentative balancing act comes at the right time, seems to have been agreed before the show.

The right person to talk to is sitting there: the hitherto mute climate professor Quaschning.

The scientist, who would like to ban all combustion cars by 2025, is now attacking Kretschmer from a new angle.

Saxony brings up the rear in Germany when it comes to solar and wind energy.

Journalist Lindner even accuses Kretschmer of "avoidance planning".

Markus Lanz: Climate discussion on the show - Kretschmer speaks of "backup strategy"

Kretschmer seems prepared: "This discussion is great if you live in Berlin-Mitte," he counters smugly.

He doesn't even have to mention that one of the largest solar power plants in Europe is being built near Leipzig with the Witznitz energy park.

However, Kretschmer misses a “backup strategy” that includes biomass, hydropower and fracking in addition to coal and gas.

“An energy system will not work with just the sun and just the wind.

We need a form of energy that can cover the base load.” The Greens would “approvingly accept the explosion in energy prices.

This energy transition will not work like this!”

Quaschning develops a nightmare scenario: "We need 50,000 wind turbines in Germany." It remains to be seen where they will all be located and where the rotor blades will be deposited when they later become hazardous waste.

But thousands of wind turbines would have to go to Saxony.

The state only built one wind turbine in 2021.

Kretschmer has other priorities.

“We are currently experiencing an increase in prices that is causing pure fear in many people.

We have the standstill of industrial plants.

We need to get energy prices down.

This is toxic to our country.”

Markus Lanz: Conclusion of the talk

The show was essentially an exchange of blows between Markus Lanz and Michael Kretschmer.

The two fought extensive duels in which Lanz repeatedly showed a block mentality that was quite unpleasant for the viewer, which he had developed in the spring.

Apparently he can't stop that after the summer break.

But Kretschmer was not as easy a victim as Ulrike Guérot, who consistently silenced Lanz.

Kretschmer countered.

And left Lanz dismayed several times.