“We have to isolate Orbán”: EU politician Green calls for a tougher approach – to deter other countries

Created: 09/16/2022, 11:56 am

By: Anna-Katharina Ahnefeld

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán is moving further and further away from the values ​​of the European Union.

© Emmanuel Dunand/afp

Poland is surpassing itself, Hungary keeps flirting with blockades.

The Russia-Ukraine war has had an impact on bilateral relations.

EU politician Daniel Freund (Greens) is tough on Viktor Orbán.

Strasbourg – For a long time, Hungary and Poland were pretty much the best of friends.

Those times seem to be over.

The escalating conflict in Ukraine has caused relations to cool down significantly – but Russia had already caused tensions in bilateral cooperation before that.

While Poland has been on the side of Ukraine since the outbreak of the war, Hungary has been acting cautiously to blocking - and even slowing down punitive measures by the European Union against Russia.

Are Hungary and Poland falling out?

And what does Viktor Orbán's Russia course mean for the EU?

The

from IPPEN.MEDIA talks about this with the MEP Daniel Freund (Greens) at the September plenary week of the European Parliament in Strasbourg.

Russia-Ukraine war: Green politician Daniel Freund on the EU's dealings with Hungary's Viktor Orbán

Mr Freund, Vladimir Putin uses energy as a weapon of war.

What is his purpose and how can we defend ourselves?

Vladimir Putin is speculating on driving us Europeans apart.

If he wins Viktor Orbán, who only cares about cheap gas, then Putin has won.

We can only defeat the dictator in the Kremlin if we stand together as Europeans and ensure that the available gas is distributed throughout Europe in as much solidarity as possible.

To do this, we must all save together and accelerate the expansion of renewable energies.

Speaking of "standing together": How can Hungary's current role in the EU - and in the Russia-Ukraine war - be described?

Hungary brakes, blocks and prevents everywhere.

At every negotiation on sanctions or the extension of existing sanctions, Hungary has raised concerns, softened and used the veto in a way we have never seen in EU history over the past six months.

Symbolic of this is Hungary's veto against the global minimum tax for large companies, which was done purely for strategic reasons - to get even more out of it in case of doubt.

This is highly uncooperative.

It's not even about protecting Hungarian interests, it's just about Orbán maximizing utility for himself.

This is already a new level - and this is dangerous for the EU.

If other countries imitate Hungary, cooperation in Europe is over pretty quickly. 

Could you explain in more detail this new level that Hungarian politics has entered?

No other Member State has so far abused the right of veto as much as Hungary.

No other head of government is more concerned than Orbán with getting as much money out of it as possible.

We know that the EU funds that are still flowing to Hungary are used to keep Orbán in power or to enrich his closest friends and family members personally.

It's just unbearable that the European Union isn't cracking down on this more.

In Parliament we have been fighting for the rule of law mechanism for years, i.e. the possibility of freezing funds if an EU member does not comply with fundamental values.

Which now also exists...

Yes, although we have had this mechanism for a year and a half, we first had to sue the Commission for inaction for it to finally use this tool.

The process was initiated for the first time in April.

However, the first information leaking out is sobering.

Freezing 20 percent of EU funds to Hungary is currently being considered.

That's way too conservative.

This whole mechanism does not exist to punish Hungary, and certainly not the Hungarians, but to exert pressure by temporarily freezing funds so that the Hungarian government returns to the club of functioning constitutional states and democracies.

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Hungary and Poland - alienation from friends?

Green politician convinced: "We have to isolate Orbán"

Hungary and Poland could hardly act more differently in the Russia-Ukraine war.

The bilateral relationship is tense, even though the countries are traditionally close.

Do you think that Poland and Hungary will go their separate ways, as Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki already indicated?

You cant say it like that.

Poland and Hungary have always been very close when it comes to constitutional issues.

However, there have long been differences in dealing with Russia.

The Russia-Ukraine war and the energy crisis have made these even more obvious.

Still, I don't think Poland would support the next step in Article 7 proceedings against Hungary, a potential sanction, because Warsaw of course knows that if in doubt they are next on the list.

But for now, Poland is the EU's spearhead in helping Ukraine.

In Hungary, on the other hand, Viktor Orbán basically got all the media he controls – and that is almost everything in Hungary – to broadcast the “Russia Today” program in Hungarian.

That's quite significant

This is a good indication of the currently divided relationship between Poland and Hungary.

However, I do not believe that this means that Hungary and Poland will no longer consult on rule of law issues.

So is Viktor Orbán pro-Putin? 

Viktar Orbán remains Vladimir Putin's closest ally within the European Council.

For example, I find it incredible that the leaks of confidential and secret documents from the Hungarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs to Russia apparently play no role.

Let's just imagine that security-relevant information continues to flow to Moscow even now!

It just can't be, in a war situation like this.

I have long advocated freezing EU funds until we can ensure that these funds go where they are supposed to go and not just disappear into the pockets of Orbán's confidants.

The Hungarian government authorized the construction of Russian nuclear power plants in Hungary just a few weeks ago.

All you can do is throw your hands over your head.

Has Hungary not noticed what is happening in the neighboring country? 

Nevertheless, the impression is currently being created that Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen is taking a milder stance towards Budapest – supposedly in order to be able to act as one in the Russia-Ukraine war.

What message does this send to Viktor Orbán?

Every time Viktor Orbán sees the veto or his bluster working, every time he just takes the money, he is encouraged to do it the same way next time.

I'm really concerned that more and more countries are feeling encouraged to do the same with Hungary.

We have that in the past with the right-wing nationalist Janez Janša

seen in Slovenia.

The big concern right now is how the next Italian government will behave.

If they start to follow the same course as Orbán, we're in for hard times.

How can the EU deal with a state, a head of government, that has ultimately turned its back on the EU completely? 

We must isolate Viktor Orbán.

That worked pretty well for a long time.

The real questions are being asked in Poland at the moment.

How do you manage to keep Poland in this club of democracies?

As long as Orbán is alone, he has significantly less power, in case of doubt sanctions are possible without him.

In Poland, the conservatives are currently wanting more support, both military and financial, so that the refugees can be well cared for.

You should give them that.

Also, as a German Green, I find it better to deliver tanks to Poland, because they have given many tanks to the Ukraine, instead of turning a blind eye to the rule of law.

It must be clear that we take the deficits in the rule of law very, very seriously and put pressure on them.

On the other hand, we must also signal that

that Poland currently has our full support.

It has to be clear: Poland must not use the war as a cloak to kick out the last independent judges.

We will not tolerate that.

Green politician Daniel Freund wants to isolate Viktor Orbán in the EU – and focus on Poland.

© Imago

(Interview: Catherine Ahnefeld)