Matteo Salvini: "If we govern, the NGO boats will not enter Italy"

Matteo Salvini (Milan, 49 years old), senator, former vice president of the Council of Ministers and former head of the Interior, kindly greets journalists at his party's headquarters, in the Roman neighborhood of Prati.

He asks for half a second before starting the interview, puts on his black-rimmed glasses and looks at a message that has just arrived.

"Postponed until November," he muses.

He refers to one of the processes for kidnapping people that cost him, during his time as Minister of the Interior, his effort to not let the NGO boats that rescued immigrants enter any Italian port.

In that case he went with the Spanish Open Arms, a process from which he believes that he will be acquitted.

That was a tough time.

And also very tense with the European Union.

And some things have changed in her vision of Brussels, she explains in the interview with EL PAÍS.

But in others, she promises, she plans to return to the fray from the first Council of Ministers if on September 25 she wins the right-wing coalition of which she is a part with Forza Italia and Hermanos de Italia.

The victory, eight days before the elections, seems discounted.

But the League must also contain the bleeding of votes that, according to Salvini, has cost them to enter the Executive.

Ask.

Having seen the polls, do you regret having entered the Draghi government?

Response.

No, it seemed fair to me to do it during the pandemic and commit in the first person.

A government only of the Democratic Party and the 5 Star Movement would have been terrible for Italy.

P.

The right-wing coalition shows divergences on several issues.

The last one was on Thursday when it came to supporting the resolution of the European Parliament in which it was said that Hungary is not a full democracy.

You and Meloni have voted against.

R.

I am against the interference of foreign countries in Italy.

And if they have just voted in Hungary and in Sweden too, I respect their choices.

I do not see why the EU, instead of dealing with electricity, gas and immigration, is concerned with the rules of other countries.

Hungary?

The EU should worry about electricity, gas and immigration instead of the rules of other countries”

P.

Well, there are doubts of a democratic nature.

R.

Have the Hungarians voted?

Yes, and recently.

Well, let's take note of what they have chosen.

Orbán does not like the European left, so much the worse for them.

Q.

Forza Italia, a partner in your coalition, has voted in favor of this resolution.

R.

Forza Italia is part of the European People's Party, which badly governs Europe with the socialists.

But external interferences I don't like.

If the Hungarians have voted, let us respect them.

P.

Forza Italia has warned that if the next Italian government is not pro-European it will leave the coalition.

A.

We do not change placement or alliances.

We are with the free Western countries, with NATO, with the EU.

That is not discussed.

But it is not understood why Europe should open a file on Poland, Hungary or Austria... or tomorrow on Italy.

P.

Do you not recognize the extreme right label?

R.

Are the Swedes crazy?

No. They have voted and changed government because they were tired of the left.

If they have chosen the right, great.

Q.

Far right...

R.

No. They also label us that way.

Now, for example, I have a lawsuit because I blocked a Spanish ship that refused to go to Spain with its cargo of immigrants and wanted to come to Italy.

And I just did my job.

P.

If you were Minister of the Interior again, would your decrees and the NGO ships that cannot enter Italian ports return?

R.

The Italian borders are also European.

And if they become a sieve again, like now, it is a problem for Europe.

Having protected and controlled borders is an advantage for all of Europe.

Ministers from the entire community, also from Spain, congratulated us.

And we save lives.

This year twice as many people have died in the Mediterranean than when we had the security decrees.

So in the first Council of Ministers they will come back into force.

The leader of the League, Matteo Salvini, at the Roman headquarters of the match.Antonello Nusca

P.

And will the ships stay out of Italian ports again?

A.

Yes, there will be a ban on entering territorial waters.

P.

Meloni proposes a naval blockade with military vessels.

R.

Let's do what works… The decrees I signed worked without all that.

Simply collaborating with other countries, confiscating pirate ships and blocking the immigration business.

P.

When you see the way in which Spain has managed this matter in recent times, what do you think?

R.

The images in Ceuta and Melilla are eloquent.

Spain does well to defend its borders.

But if a leftist government does it, even with force, it's normal.

If someone from the right does it, using only the right, it's fascism.

If a leftist government defends its borders, even with force, it is normal.

If one of the right does it, using only the right, it is fascism”

P.

The differences in the coalition also reach the Russian issue.

You have asked to withdraw the sanctions, and Meloni denied you.

R.

No, I have said that they are there and we have approved them.

But who pays them?

Also Italian workers.

So I ask that the EU protect them too.

Do you want to continue with sanctions that are ineffective?

It does not seem to me that they have stopped the war.

We have always approved aid to Ukraine, including sanctions.

But the workers cannot pay them.

Sanctions on Russia are ineffective.

I don't think the war has stopped."

P.

Do you understand the concern that your rhetoric arouses on this issue?

R.

Today there has already been a denial from the Italian secret services about any involvement of Italian parties in Russian financing.

There is no economic relationship or of any kind.

With Putin all the ministers of the world talked, but after the war the relationship changed.

It is normal.

P.

Mario Draghi, in a tough press conference, has given to understand today that you were secretly talking with the Russians.

R.

I don't think he was referring to me, especially because when I met with the Russian ambassador in Italy to ask for peace, I have always explained it publicly.

Once, even, outside the Chigi Palace, after an encounter with Draghi.

There is extensive documentation and since I act in the light of the sun I have nothing to hide.

And let me insist that those responsible for national security have denied Russian interference in Italian democracy.

P.

If your coalition wins, will nothing change in this regard?

A.

Nothing.

And the left has voted more times in Europe in favor of Russia than the League.

P.

There are also discrepancies in your coalition about the possibility of incurring a deficit.

What do you think?

R.

In this we do have a different idea of ​​the emergency.

You have to inject money immediately.

The money is needed now.

Better to put 30,000 million euros now at the expense of the debt to save the industry than having to put triple later for the Ertes.

Every day we lose is a factory that closes.

P.

And how will they explain it to Brussels?

R.

If the EU intervened we would all be happy.

But before October he has already said that he is not going to do anything.

And they will not put a ceiling on the price of gas.

We cannot always wait for Europe.

P.

Will they be able to get out of the Draghi agenda and play something economically in such a complicated situation?

A.

We must.

To begin with, the pension system must be reformed, because if not on January 1, the

which would be a calamity [delays retirement until 67 years of age].

In addition, our idea of ​​a single type of personal income tax has been accepted by the rest of the coalition partners.

Q.

What other 15% single rate model is yours inspired by?

R.

Today it is already operational for two million self-employed in Italy and we want to extend it to those hired to contain tax evasion.

Q.

It does not appear that there is coverage for that tax cut at this time.

A.

Absolutely yes.

The single type of the self-employed already brings more money to the state coffers.

I bet on a great axis of the Mediterranean.

Even more so now with the subject of agriculture, the sea and logistics”

P.

Meloni has asked that the Franco-German axis be abandoned and that alliances with the East be taken into account.

Do you think the same?

R.

I bet a lot on the Mediterranean front.

And now with the subject of agriculture, the sea, logistics... even more so.

I think that our axis should be that: Portugal, Spain, France, Greece, Malta, Cyprus... I would bring the Mediterranean back to the center.

And when I am in the Government I will like to give life to that axis.

So rather than looking at Hungary or Poland, I look at Spain or Greece.

That front will be the future challenge, and not just on immigration.

P.

You were very harsh with Brussels in your previous stage in the Government.

Has anything changed?

R.

During the covid there was European solidarity and a climate of union was breathed.

But now with the issue of gas, each one goes back on their own.

We ask that you get some things right, like protecting borders, but leave others alone, like agriculture.

The Europe that gives advantage to multinationals by leaving the Mediterranean diet out of the law is not my Europe: it is a

There we will raise our voice, we will not let ourselves be trampled.

Q.

And what is your idea of ​​Europe?

A.

A Europe of the peoples.

The League was already talking about that 30 years ago.

A union of different that respects individual countries.

And today Europe does not respect Italy enough.

P.

With the arrival of your government, there is also concern about a setback in the issue of civil rights such as abortion or the rights of the LGTBI group.

R.

The last of our concerns is to reform that law.

The last word belongs to the woman.

Perhaps it can be updated, helping pro-life centers to offer another possibility.

As for the LGTBI collective, I myself signed a law to punish those who attack, insult or discriminate against them.

And about the family, we have a different vision than the one on the left.

I am against surrogacy: adoptions need a father and a mother.

The mother is the mother, not parent number one or two… Family is a value.

P.

Excuse me for getting personal, but you talk about the classical, Hungarian family, but none of them respond to that model.

R.

It is not a traditional family, it is the child's right to have a father and a mother.

Then the marriage can go well or badly, divorce you... But the minor must be in the center.

The child comes into the world if there is a mother or a father.

Look, I'm divorced and I have another partner.

Seen from the Catholic religion I am a sinner.

P.

If the results do not go well for you after the elections, do you fear that the party will look for a substitute for you?

R.

No. It is curious, because we are about to win.

I would be worried if it were the secretary of the PD or the M5S, who are about to lose them.

We prepare to rule.

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