Dr. Miguel Gómez Balestreri, during a conference in the Colombian Senate, in Bogotá, in May 2019.SecreSenado (RR. SS.)
Franco-Spanish professor Miguel Gomis Balestreri has spent many years of his academic life studying the theory of degrowth, a current of thought that a few weeks ago jumped into public debate in Colombia because the Minister of Mines and Energy, Irene Vélez, assured that it was necessary to demand that the developed countries that began "to decrease in their economic models" so that the impacts of climate change would not affect society so much.
His words were not well received in the National Mining Congress, they went viral and earned him hundreds of criticisms from political and business leaders.
The senator of Cambio Radical, David Luna, said on his social networks: "What needs to be decreased is naivety and improvisation when it comes to governing";
Mauricio Santamaria,
Vélez's statements, however, reflect a proposal that has been applied with concrete measures in different countries around the world.
Gomis, doctor in Political Science and International Relations at the Complutense University of Madrid and professor at the Faculty of Political Science and International Relations at the Javeriana University, speaks with EL PAÍS about the validity of the theory of degrowth, the deep ignorance between politics traditional Colombian culture and the climate catastrophe that will come if we do not change our way of living.
"Degrowth is not economic slowdown or poverty, it is consuming less to live better," he says.
Ask.
How do you understand degrowth?
Response.
Degrowth is not just an economic theory, but a critical approach that also involves sociology and philosophy.
Its sustenance comes from the bioeconomy concept of Georgescu-Roegen (1971), one of the economists who in the 20th century most strongly criticized the neoclassical economy that governs the planet.
Degrowth is not the same as slowdown in terms of Gross Domestic Product (GDP).
It is much more complex.
This current of thought goes against the productivist logic in which well-being has been associated with consumption.
It is not synonymous with poverty, but with consuming less to live better.
Q.
Why does degrowth criticize the notion of GDP?
R.
The GDP is an outdated indicator that does not really reflect wealth because it does not include in its measurement the negative externalities of production, such as ecological deterioration.
So, the first step for degrowthists is to recognize that continuing to measure the development of countries with GDP is a very serious mistake, because it erroneously reflects wealth.
Q.
You say that degrowth proposes consuming less...
R.
This current of thought goes against the productivist logic of the left or right that associates well-being with consumption.
The objective of degrowth is to offer a critical vision of our relationship with work, with the objects we buy and with the environment.
This critical vision tries to revalue a way of living in the world that is more ecologically aware, but also more socially responsible.
Irene Vélez (right), Minister of Mines of Colombia, in a meeting with the Minister of Tourism of Spain, María Reyes Maroto.GOVERNMENT OF COLOMBIA
Q.
A kind of sustainable growth?
A.
Not only that.
Degrowth proposes that we have to be cautious with the use of natural resources, yes.
But it is also a philosophical current that says that we must recover a human sense of life, outside of commodification.
That is why degrowth is critical of advertising and programmed obsolescence, that form of production that makes things last less in order to sell more.
Q.
What is the objective of degrowth?
R.
It seeks us to review our way of living.
The two econometric bases that support this are very simple, but very powerful.
First, we cannot grow infinitely in a finite world.
Second, human beings are not only governed by the maximization of their interests.
Q.
That sounds very nice in theory, but in practice, can degrowth be applied?
R.
Yes, there are already very simple, very concrete measures that are being implemented by governments in different parts of the world.
For example, working fewer hours and dividing the work among more people, or forcing companies to ensure that cell phone components do not break down so quickly, or seeking for families to recover leisure time.
The main thing is that we do not live for the economy, but that the economy serves the life of the human being.
P.
Are there historical or recent experiences of degrowth applications in communities, in entire countries?
R.
The kingdom of Bhutan is well known because years ago it established a competitive measure with GDP.
It is a small Buddhist kingdom, which is governed by indicators such as happiness.
It is a country that has proposed a different way of measuring human well-being.
Q.
Have Cuba or Venezuela applied degrowth measures?
R.
No. That idea is absurd.
What is happening in these countries is not related to degrowth, but rather to a slowdown in capitalist terms.
Q.
Are there other places besides the Kingdom of Bhutan?
R.
There are many measures at the local level that are linked to degrowth.
The European Union, for example, has limited the planned obsolescence of technological products and forced all cell phones of different brands to have a single charger.
Today, in the textile industry there is talk of recycling materials and in agribusiness of shortening supply chains between farmers and the consumer.
France decided to go from 40 hours of work a week to 35 hours, which means that they try to spread the working hours among more workers.
That is degrowth.
P.
Could one say that it is possible to decrease and at the same time improve people's quality of life?
A.
Totally.
The objective is precisely that, to live better.
Q.
It sounds very utopian...
R.
It is not utopian to say that we can live better in the sense of working fewer hours, being more responsible with the environment and having more time with friends.
It can be done, there are simply people who are interested in us not thinking outside that paradigm because that paradigm generates wealth for them.
Q.
Can degrowth help tackle climate change?
R.
If we do not decrease, we will not be able to avoid scenarios of environmental collapse.
And this is important.
P.
What do you think of the criticism of the minister?
R.
I think that the people who criticized it so strongly have not understood what degrowth is.
Degrowth is supported by extremely serious econometric approaches.
We are not talking about something improvised.
Those who say that this is ridiculous, illogical or improvised, are forgetting that the most realistic thing is to know that if we continue as we are, we are heading towards catastrophe.
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