"First victim of Russian propaganda"?

Lanz wants to grab Wagenknecht - just before the end she dodges

Created: 09/21/2022, 12:38 p.m

Sahra Wagenknecht (Die Linke) in conversation with the adviser to the imprisoned Kremlin critic Alexej Navalny Leonid Volkov on "Markus Lanz".

© Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF

Sahra Wagenknecht is allowed to announce her views on Putin at Markus Lanz.

Flanked by Navalny's confidante Volkov, he wants to put the left-wing politician in the pliers.

Hamburg – While AfD party leader Alice Weidel sat for an interview on ARD with Sandra Maischberger, Markus Lanz felt the left MP Sahra Wagenknecht on ZDF.

There were some parallels in content between the two politicians - known for provocations - from the left and right spectrum of the Bundestag parties.

The stumbling block for Lanz are two sentences that Wagenknecht threw at the traffic light government in the budget debate almost two weeks ago.

Wagenknecht had described the German cabinet as the "stupidest government in Europe" and also claimed that Germany had "unleashed an unprecedented economic war against our most important energy supplier" - meaning, of course, Vladimir Putin's Russia.

Many members of the AfD parliamentary group in the Bundestag then clapped heartily.

"Where do we end up if we don't name something because the AfD could applaud?" Wagenknecht defends against criticism at Lanz.

And reiterates her call for an end to the "fatal economic sanctions" that, according to her, only harmed Germany, but not Putin.

Wagenknecht is on course with Weidel, but not necessarily with economic experts.

She adds that the sanctions - ostensibly as an "objective result" - only "benefit the United States". 

"Markus Lanz" - these guests discussed with:

• Sahra Wagenknecht (Die Linke) -

  member of the Bundestag

• Leonid Volkov -

  Advisor to jailed Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny

• Kerstin Münstermann -

  Head of the Berlin Parliament Office of the

  Rheinische Post

Wagenknecht refers to Russia's nuclear power and makes the western states look weak: "Where have sanctions ever brought about a regime change?".

Lanz's pulse rises so slowly - but clearly recognizable.

He still tries to do justice to his role as a moderator: "They say what some people do is bad.

But what the others do is also bad." Then he points out that action and reaction - "perpetrator and victim" - are not to be equated: "Blatant reversal of logic" and "crude", Lanz finally decides and clarifies: " There is only one power and it sits in the Kremlin and its name is Vladimir Putin.”

Wagenknecht remains calm about the accusation that she "understands Putin".

The German-speaking Leonid Volkov, confidant of the imprisoned Russian opposition figure Alexej Navalny, is also dry in the direction of Wagenknecht:

"Everything you say is Putin's dream." The German politician is serving exactly the thrust of Russian propaganda in the Ukraine war.

Lanz adds: "The fact that the first victim of Russian propaganda" was a "clever woman" like Wagenknecht surprised him.

But Wagenknecht leave both comments untouched.

Her iron expression is also telling when Volkov later says that he believes that one day Navalny will be President of Russia - and adds with a smile: "He deserves it."

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From left: Markus Lanz, Dr.

Sahra Wagenknecht, Leonid Volkov, Kerstin Münstermann.

© Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF

Volkov, who has lived in exile in Lithuania since 2019, explains why he thinks Wagenknecht's attitudes and ideas are wrong: "A ceasefire," according to Volkov, is "Putin's dream."

That would mean advancing further west "green line on the map" and the annexation of the already conquered territories.

"A new reality" and the continuation of a strategy from 2014, when Putin first occupied Ukrainian territories.

Western politicians could then say: “We made peace.

The Ukrainian refugees go back home.

There is no more war and we are making money again.” But Volkov is sure it would only be a short-term standstill: “Putin will use this pause to rearm, to rebuild the army and then there will be a next round.”

"Lanz": Navalny adviser predicts mobilization and nuclear weapons blackmail

Wagenknecht quickly dismisses the argument.

According to Wagenknecht, neither Russia nor Ukraine can win the war, and Germany cannot help Ukraine.

We only hurt “ourselves” if Germany doesn’t end the economic sanctions, according to Die Linke: “The core problem is that we are more dependent on Russian raw materials than Russia is dependent on us buying them.” And: “ We are getting more and more involved in this war.

This is dangerous."

Volkov also sees an aggravation of the situation: After the "blackmail attempts" by stopping grain and gas deliveries, Volkov is certain that "nuclear weapons blackmail" will now follow.

He also suspects a mobilization in Russia in the foreseeable future - on Wednesday morning Putin actually ordered a partial mobilization.

Wagenknecht does not believe that Ukraine can win against Russia.

Wagenknecht, who was completely wrong about the invasion of Russian troops and confidently dismissed this scenario the day before the Russian invasion, also sees Russia as unable to achieve its military goals.

It doesn't matter whether the West supports Ukraine or not.

She again demands a withdrawal from the conflict and negotiations.

But also admits that Russia probably does not want this of its own accord.

Wagenknecht accuses the German government of "double standards" in the Ukraine conflict

Political journalist Kerstin Münstermann finds this point of view incomprehensible: "Wouldn't we harm ourselves a lot more if we let Putin have his way?" She questions Wagenknecht's statements.

After all, it is about defending “democratic values”.

Lanz agrees: "I think so too".

Wagenknecht sees it differently: "You can't win a war with weapons and morals." This time Volkov contradicts: "Yes." And Lanz now takes Wagenknecht's honor: "We are almost obliged to help a country that is being attacked help,” he says.

Wagenknecht believes that Germany has turned a blind eye to many other wars and, with arms exports, has even contributed to the fact that these have even worsened.

However, the left catches a moderator counterattack when they speak of “double standards”.

What if "if you argue with morality" when you call for the lifting of sanctions in relation to Russia.

“Is that then morally degenerate?” asks Lanz.

Wagenknecht can't think of anything, she distracts.

"No whataboutism," warns Lanz.

Still, there is no answer.

"I thank Sahra Wagenknecht, argumentative as ever," Lanz concludes the program.

Conclusion of the "Markus Lanz" talk

That was educational television - albeit in the sense of attempting further training for Sahra Wagenknecht.

Lanz gave everything.

Still, he wasn't successful.