Lauterbach explains the Corona Wiesn dilemma: "Of course, these are contradictions"

Created: 09/22/2022, 11:31 am

Federal Health Minister Karl Lauterbach (SPD) in conversation with moderator Sandra Maischberger.

© WDR/Thomas Kierok

Roderich Kiesewetter (CDU) calls for calmness towards Putin and praises Chancellor Scholz.

Karl Lauterbach (SPD) fears a Corona winter. 

Berlin – The war reporter Katrin Eigendorf was just in the city of Izyum, which had been retaken from the Ukraine, where mass graves were discovered after the withdrawal of Russian troops.

She doesn't see Vladimir Putin's aggression in Maischberger as news: "Right from the start he saw the West as an enemy." She is certain that the attack on Ukraine is just the beginning: "What we of Ukraine is not only a war against Ukraine, but the beginning of a war against the West in general.”

Because Putin's real enemy is the USA, the West and the Western alliances.

"The war began in 2014, when Ukraine made a clear commitment to moving west." Nevertheless, current events do not leave Eigendorf indifferent.

"The partial mobilization represents a new quality in the escalation of this war," she assesses.

Maischberger: Kiesewetter on Putin's mobilization - "It does something to Russian society"

Roderich Kiesewetter sees the partial mobilization as a clear sign to the Russian population that "the so-called special operation has not worked so far".

This is now Putin's attempt to disrupt the cohesion of the European states: "It does something to Russian society, because the 300,000 who are to be called up are under 28. He doesn't mobilize much, he deliberately goes to the younger generation who are now studying or in training.

You will be ripped out of there.

That's a sign of defeat.

We perceive it as an insecurity.”

"Maischberger" - these guests discussed with:

• Karl Lauterbach (SPD)

  – Federal Minister of Health

• Roderich Kieswetter (CDU)

  – foreign politician and former colonel

As experts: 

• Micky Beisenherz 

  - moderator and author

• Katrin Eigendorf

  - war reporter

• Dagmar Rosenfeld

   – Editor-in-Chief

  Welt am Sonntag

• Henrike Roßbach

   – deputy

  Head of the parliamentary

  office of the Süddeutsche Zeitung

Maischberger: Kiesewetter speaks of Putin's "spring offensive"

Kiesewetter thinks he knows what Putin is planning: "My personal assessment is that Putin is preparing for a spring offensive." That leaves four or five months, "because the soldiers first have to be trained."

This training lasts at least six to eight weeks.

Kiesewetter's demand is clear: "Support Ukraine as early as possible and as strongly as possible."

also read

"Militarily a disaster for Russia": Expert calculates with Putin's partial mobilization

Partial mobilization in Russia: What is interesting is what Putin didn't say in his speech

Domestically, Putin is under a lot of pressure.

"He's never been this bad before," says Eigendorf.

For the first time, criticism came from the parliamentary opposition.

One must know that the "real opposition" is in prisons or prison camps.

The population, on the other hand, said the war was "quite irrelevant": "Nobody criticizes it publicly, but nobody runs out cheering into the streets either." he harms himself because the war is reaching the people.

"If the population realizes that the war is harming them, Putin has a problem."

Roderich Kiesewetter (CDU) guest at "Maischberger".

© WDR/Thomas Kierok

Putin's nuclear weapons threat: CDU man: "I think it's a bluff"

But what if the threat of using nuclear weapons really is "no bluff," as Vladimir Putin said in his speech?

"I think it's a bluff," says Kiesewetter, "because it would isolate him in foreign policy." Putin began nuclear exercises twelve years ago, and major army exercises always ended with the interference of tactical nuclear weapons, at least on paper.

With the use of tactical nuclear weapons, which would have a yield one hundredth of the Hiroshima bomb and could be carried in the field, Putin would isolate himself.

"China and friendly African states would turn away," Kiesewetter is certain.

Putin must be shown clearly that as a result he will lose his power base.

"This is our chance," says Kiesewetter, who believes that Putin is cheating.

The Russian President said his weapons were more modern, just showing that he was prepared and pretending to be ready to use those weapons.

"He's expressing inferiority because he's threatening something that's banned worldwide," Kiesewetter analyzes.

One must understand that this language is turned inwards in order to build up apparent strength.

"I also believe that our Chancellor found the right words today before the United Nations."

Furthermore, Kiesewetter is in favor of extensive arms deliveries in order to put Ukraine in a negotiating position, so far the delivery has only been made "in slices".

Gas from Azerbaijan: "We constantly make compromises"

Another issue is gas.

There is no more gas from Russia, but from Azerbaijan.

That Azerbaijan ruled by Ilham Aliyev who is invading democratic Armenia.

For Micky Beisenherz, a clear case of "selective morality": "That doesn't fit with value-based foreign policy." Dagmar Rosenfeld sees it pragmatically: "If we only want to work with flawless democrats, then it will be tight for us." We have to deal with this dilemma one now live.

"We have made ourselves so dependent that we now have to see where we get our gas from."

"We always make compromises," says Henrike Roßbach.

"Even if we import fracking gas from Canada, then these are raw materials that we don't want to obtain in this way." The same dilemma applies if you opt out of nuclear power and at the same time obtain nuclear power from France.

Karl Lauterbach: "We will certainly have more difficulties again in autumn, especially in winter"

For a long time it was quieter around Corona and quieter around Karl Lauterbach.

The Minister of Health was a guest at “Maischberger” for an individual interview.

US President Joe Biden said the pandemic was over.

“Is he right?” asks Maischberger.

"Epidemiologically not, of course, because we still have infections in many places around the world.

Actually, the pandemic is over when we have defeated it everywhere," says Lauterbach.

Nevertheless, he could understand that Biden wanted to make his personal position known in order to create a moment of comfort before difficult elections.

"We will certainly have more difficulties again in autumn, especially in winter," predicts Lauterbach.

Even if mortality, as formulated by Christian Drosten, is now in the context of an influenza illness, the long-term consequences should not be neglected.

In the case of severe courses, the heart is often involved and blood vessels damaged even a year later.

On the one hand, an Oktoberfest is celebrated, on the other hand, train travelers have to wear a mask.

"Of course, these are contradictions," admits Lauterbach.

However, the complete lifting of the mask requirement is “irresponsible” and would lead to a high number of cases.

But how is this contradiction justified?

Visiting the Oktoberfest is voluntary, whereas there are people who are forced to take the train.

But Karl Lauterbach is not only concerned with Corona.

He also has an attitude towards the war in Ukraine.

"It is underestimated what we have already done, only Great Britain and the USA have delivered more weapons."

Maischberger – Summary of the show:

The news of the partial mobilization in Russia caused a moment of shock around the world.

Roderich Kiesewetter sees the dangers more on the Russian side and calls for consistent support for Ukraine.

Kiesewetter considers a nuclear strike to be out of the question.

The war reporter Katrin Eigendorf expects increasing protests from the Russian population.

And then there would be Corona: Karl Lauterbach continues to urge caution, but is much more cautious than in the past.