Lieberman in an extensive interview: "If Netanyahu does not reach 61, the big bang will begin in Likud"

Just before the decision on the ballot, Finance Minister Avigdor Lieberman shoots in all directions in a stormy interview with Maariv SofaShavu.

Netanyahu, Lapid, the ultra-orthodox, the Arabs - no one is left dry

Anna Barsky, Maariv

10/28/2022

Friday, October 28, 2022, 12:33 Updated: 12:54

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In the video: Lapid on Lieberman's words in Vala!: "I was in the treasury longer than him" (Photo: HaShabbat Square)

"We have to focus on bringing in the voters."

Lieberman (Photo: Mark Israel Salem)

Finance Minister Avigdor Lieberman will be very happy to continue in his position even after the elections, nevertheless, he still has quite a few plans in the works.

"We didn't have time to pass the next budget or complete some moves, and there are still quite a few work plans," he says in an interview, just before the citizens of Israel go to the polls.

"Everything is very tight. The whole debate is about a mandate-a mandate and a half that swings from side to side, from bloc to bloc. That's why there is no room here for feelings, there is room for hard work. At the moment, the decision in the elections will be based on the answer to the question of who will organize better and who will be more effective on election day himself".

"This time, more than in all the previous systems, the focus must be on bringing in the voters. This is the fifth campaign, and people are already fed up. That's why the turnout will have a critical effect. And traditionally, the lowest turnout has always been among the expatriates of the Commonwealth of Nations, while the highest turnout - among the ultra-Orthodox. The voting percentages in Elad, Beitar Illit or Ramat Beit Shemesh will always be higher than the voting percentages in Ramat Hasharon, Herzliya or, say, Kfar Saba. At the moment it has a different validity. That's why more emphasis should be placed there on election day."

"It is possible that they are preparing another surprise for me, like the blood plot you mentioned. We saw a letter that issued an instruction from the Likud headquarters - by the way, it was broadcast in an article on one of the television channels - to disrupt the election system, especially in the polling stations in the places identified as the strongest places in Israel. A detailed instruction, an order Battle. As for Putin, the last time we met and spoke was during his visit to Israel in Netanya."

"Clear and smooth. I see attempts to prepare the ground for the delegitimization of the elections in case Netanyahu loses, and I certainly fear events on the scale of breaking into the Capitol."

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"The country doesn't interest him."

Netanyahu (Photo: Reuven Castro)

We are in a situation of security escalation and rampant prices.

It seems that what bothers you is actually core studies.

"I am troubled by the issue of religion and state. I am in favor of a Jewish state and against a Halacha state. There are many serious and patient rabbis along the lines of Beit Hillel, but I fear the rise of blue-and-white ayatollahs. And I am talking about public quotes. When Goldknopf says that being a yeshiva student is much more difficult From serving in the IDF, and that even yeshiva students get all the same benefits as combat veterans, or that English and math did not contribute to the advancement of the economy - these are crazy and insane things.

Therefore, it should be understood that anyone who votes for Netanyahu, votes for the 'pack of darkness', literally.

It also means Derai, Goldknopf, Gaffni, Smotrich, and Ben Gabir.

The story of Ben Gabir and Netanyahu is the classic story of the golem rising up against its creator.

It is clear that thanks to Netanyahu, Ben Gabir and Smotrich are growing at the expense of the Likud, and all they want is to lead the State of Israel back many years, to distribute all kinds of alms of a billion shekels for food stamps, as Deri suggests - this is to bring the State of Israel back.

And 60 thousand people aged 18-67 who sit in kollelim - there is no equality of burden here.

Not only in military service, but also in the economic effort."

"Here it is important for me to make myself clear: the first subject we learn in economics is 'comparative advantage'. Our advantage is not in the size of the area, not in the size of the population, not in our natural treasures, but in the Jewish mind. And you must invest most of the money where you have a comparative advantage. In contrast To Derai and Makleb, we want to invest the money in a national program for artificial intelligence, in national laboratories, in higher education, in research and development. Our future depends on this. Our message is a 'free economy' and a 'free state.' If the ultra-Orthodox do not study core studies, they will never will integrate into the labor market. And the mass of these people who need to be subsidized is growing. According to a study by the Bank of Israel, not mine. So it is not enough that our children have to look after and protect young people who choose not to serve, but in addition to finance and subsidize them. This is already an intolerable distortion. And this subsidy increases from year to year."

"It should also be understood that Netanyahu's interests and the interests of the State of Israel have a clear conflict of interest. All he wants is a government that will release him from his cases. And when we also hear about Smotrich's reform and Dodi Amsalem's statements, it is clear that the coalition of darkness will first deal with the French law and the paragraph This will solve Netanyahu's problem and along the way will solve the entire problem of equal burden for the ultra-Orthodox. And we don't just talk, but do. Our message was that we would put those who served in the army, who work and pay taxes, at the center, and we gave it practical expression: we raised a monthly payment For IDF soldiers at 50%, we reached an agreement that the state will finance 75% of the undergraduate tuition fees for all combat veterans and all lone soldiers.

All working parents who have children aged 6-12 receive credit points.

We also gave all those who receive low wages a job grant - NIS 4,800 - last July 14."

"Wants to bring the State of Israel back."

Deri (Photo: Reuven Castro)

Unlike the previous round, Lapid and Gantz are competing among themselves as to who will reach the homes and hearts of rabbis first to hear from them that if Netanyahu does not form a government, they will receive a recommendation.

It sounds like there is no other constellation.

"There is a constellation and how. I can speak for myself: we will not be part of the formation neither with Hadash-Ta'al nor with Balad, nor with Shas and Torah Judaism.

I speak with more than half of the members of the Knesset in Likud, and based on the facts and my experience, there is a high probability that Netanyahu will not continue.

If he doesn't reach 61, he will start with Likud Mefetz HaGadol - either they will manage to oust him within the faction, or he will retire, because today four members of the Knesset can form a faction.

And when I say 'we will form a government', I mean primarily not Gantz or Lapid, but Likud without Netanyahu.

or parts of the Likud.

And from there - everything is open.

It is that Shalapid and Gantz are willing to sacrifice these things in order to become prime minister - this is their position.

And all the washing of words on the fundamental lines will not work - it is clear to everyone that if Shas is in, all liberal principles will be out. I was amazed to hear Zehava Galon repeat and say that she also wants a coalition with the ultra-Orthodox. Shame on her. But we, from experience, will not be there .

And anyone who wants a liberal Zionist government without Shas and Torah Judaism, has only one note - L. Even last time, when we set the three goals, everyone said it was impossible and clearly unrealistic. And we achieved all three: the replacement of the government and its leader, "S and Torah Judaism is out, and the treasure portfolio is in our hands.

We proved that everything is possible, and we can do it."

"We formulated ten clauses as a condition for our entry into the government: treatment of the yeshiva budget. The yeshiva budget consists of a base budget and coalition money. In this term, I was unable to stop the coalition money because of the position of the right-wing party, which fought for it; lowering discounts at day care centers, earning capacity, etc. Anyone who wants to study Torah from the age of 28 or older - let him do it at his own expense. Anyone who has not become a great rabbi by this age, there is no reason for him to spend his entire life in one kollel or another; compulsory core studies: an institution that does not study core, will not receive a single shekel; conscription law The members of the Yeshiva - we did not complete it in this term; the completion of kosher reform - we did not progress here either and we saw how critical it is; conversion by the rabbis of the city - we must disconnect it from the chief rabbinate; the activation of the red line in Gush Dan; and of course civil marriage. And anyone who himself to let him know: No, we do not compromise. Let the ultra-Orthodox compromise and accept these ten conditions. I have already compromised enough." If Lapid is the one to form the government, he will need Had"Q-Ta'al, which require opening

"The PLO and Abu Mazen are illegitimate actors. Abu Mazen was last elected from 2005 to 2009, and since the end of that term he has been fulfilling Netanyahu's dream and is in charge The PA without standing in the elections. The same Abu Mazen who writes for the mornings submits petitions to the ICC, sets up all kinds of anti-Semitic committees, accuses the State of Israel of genocide, racism and war crimes after he wrote his doctorate on the subject of Holocaust denial and never retracted it. He cannot be A legitimate player. And I apologize to anyone who continues to make pilgrimages to Moketah for a person who is not legitimate - even if he stands alone for the elections in Ramallah, he will lose there as well. And we will make it clear in advance: from our point of view, this is unacceptable, and if Lapid chooses this step, he can forget about us."

that the ultra-orthodox will compromise.

Goldknopf (photo: Reuven Castro)

Do you support Lapid's position in favor of Ukraine in its war with Russia?

"I think I am also very clear, and my position is clear. I am based on three basic principles. Our first interest is the Jewish community in Ukraine and Russia - and there are still large communities in both countries."

"I'm not giving interpretations, I'm explaining my position. We've already talked about our commitment to the Jewish community abroad.

The second commitment is to the security and political interests of the State of Israel.

And the third thing is our commitment to humane and Jewish values.

We must not forget our history as a people.

And we remember how on the eve of World War II all the countries of the world refused to accept the Jewish refugees while the world leaders knew exactly what was going to happen and what the results would be, and ignored it.

So I don't want to ignore, we received 14,000 refugees, and we provide large and wide humanitarian aid and do what needs to be done."

"I have already heard many accusations of this type, on the verge of anti-Semitism, as if Lieberman wants to flood the country with Gentiles. How did Miri Regev say? 'Liberman cares about those who drink vodka and whiskey.' Right now you have to understand: only those who arrived by five o'clock on September 9 have the right to vote. Anyone who arrived and continues to arrive after the specified time, will not be able to vote."

"You can relax: it doesn't deserve even one mandate."

"Netanyahu appeals to emotion and not to facts. From a factual point of view, Netanyahu is the one who destroyed Israeli deterrence. Look at how he behaved just a year ago at the parade of flags. He is the one who surrendered to the ultimatum of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, also changed the course, and we also intercepted rockets. And all His conduct in Operation Wall Guard was simply disgraceful. That's why the results are so severe. Moreover, his criticism of the agreement with Lebanon - I can say from first hand evidence: there was no bigger coward than Netanyahu in the Lebanese context. It's no coincidence that the strengthening of Hezbollah reached its peak during Netanyahu's time , between 2009 and 2021. Every time I brought up to him the need to deal with the Lebanese issue, he simply rattled off and had an anxiety attack. It was a colossal mistake - after all, after the Second Lebanon War, Hezbollah was at the bottom of the ladder, and then it was necessary to take care of everything that needed to be taken care of, but We will do nothing. So if there is anyone who can 'credit' the strengthening of Hezbollah, it is Netanyahu himself."

Lapid (Photo: Reuven Castro)

If Netanyahu, as prime minister of a transitional government, were to allow himself even a third of what Lapid allows himself in practice, there would be an uproar here.

In the end, every agreement - Camp David, Oslo, an agreement with Jordan - was put to a vote in the plenary.

Shouldn't the agreement with Lebanon also go through a similar process?

"The consideration is that at the moment it is impossible to conduct any substantive discussion. We saw Netanyahu's behavior in the last year when they torpedoed the IOS regulations, the citizenship law - things that are so important to the national camp.

The state does not interest Netanyahu.

The order not to let the members of his faction participate in foreign and security committees - there has been no such thing since 1948. This is something that does not exist in any reformed country.

They don't have any red lines."

"I'm always in favor of hearing substantive facts, I don't have a monopoly on wisdom and justice, I'm open, but a week before the elections there is no possibility of substantive discussion, it's clear that this will be just another spectacle of fake news and brainwashing using Netanyahu's methods. I'm just reminding those who gave the Hebron for Arafat is Netanyahu. The one who released Yahya Sanwar is Netanyahu. And the one who voted for disengagement is Netanyahu. He himself spoke from the UN stage about two states for two peoples, invited Abu Mazen to address the Knesset, congratulated Arafat on the occasion of his birthday - and so on all the way.

Everything there is boundless hypocrisy and cynicism." And to the

"I think that potentially every reasonable person would support the agreement.

And when all the heads of the security system - the Chief of Staff, the head of the National Security Agency, the head of the Mossad, the head of the Shin Bet, the national security advisor - all support full support, then I believe that it is true."

"First of all, even during Netanyahu's time there were rounds of terrorist attacks. I took the position of Minister of Defense in 2016, after what was called the 'Intifada of the Ones,' and three months after I took office, people forgot about that intifada."

"I don't interfere in the affairs of other ministers." Gantz (Photo: Reuven Castro)

And what exactly did you do?

If it's not a secret.

"We did exactly what needed to be done: focused pressure on terrorist hotspots, on those villages from which terrorists came out. There was a strict lockdown, we denied work permits to all the clans, denied them the ability to cross into the territories of the State of Israel."

"Our government has existed for a total of one year and four months. If we take the same period of time - one year and four months - now and during Netanyahu's time, it seems that during Netanyahu's time there was much more terrorism."

"I don't interfere in the affairs of other ministers."

"I am a member of the cabinet, but the decisions on the closures are made by the defense minister in consultation with the prime minister. And I repeat that overall our period - of 16 months - is much better and much calmer. People simply forgot that Netanyahu's period ended with Operation Wall Guardian."

"In terms of governmental stability, a very central requirement in coalition negotiations with us will be the adoption of the Knesset Speaker's procedure also in relation to the Prime Minister and the coalition.

That is to say, a chairman is elected by a majority of 61 and his removal is only possible with a qualified majority of 90 members of the Knesset. To give such an option to the prime minister for four years is no longer stability, but immunity, but we will ask for a period of two years: during the first two years of his term - to overthrow a head A government or a coalition is only possible with a majority of 90 votes. In that case, the government will not have to constantly worry about survival, we will not become dependent on either Silman or Zoavi, and this will enable processes to be initiated. This, of course, requires amending the Basic Law. In the area of ​​personal security - the strengthening of the police Israel. We need to recruit at least 3,000 police officers. I spoke about it three months ago, and five days later the same proposal came from Mish Atid. Only with 5,000 police officers. And not long ago - also from the state camp - to double the amount of police officers. This is what is called net populism. It is also possible say 100 thousand policemen.

As serious people we check data and do not throw numbers to please someone.

When we talk about recruiting 3,000 police officers to strengthen the police, we are not talking about recruiting kitchen sergeants, but about police officers at the level of YSM who meet all the requirements.

And even 3,000 of them is a difficult task, how many combat veterans stay in Israel and do not go on a trip to South America or New Zealand?

How many prefer to study or continue in a family business?".

"No, Rome was not built in one day. And what this government managed to do in one year, no government has done in an entire term. And I know all the governments very closely since 1996. There was no government that came close to the performance of the current government. Even during this government's time there were successes In wars with organized crime, but that's really nothing compared to what needs to be done. And on the subject of internal security, there is indeed a need for deep moves."

"I think this is propaganda in the style of Netanyahu.

After all, Netanyahu's Resolution 922 in 2015 poured billions into the Arab sector for the first time.

And also his meeting with the heads of the Arab public in Nazareth in preparation for the 2021 elections.

Furthermore, Netanyahu tried to form a government with Abbas during Operation Wall Guard.

They met four times in Balfour, and Netanyahu told him:

"Netanyahu tried to form a government with him during Operation Guard the Walls."

Abbas (Photo: Reuven Castro)

Well, let's focus on the security implications of this step.

Didn't you feel bound by the Arab partners in the government?

"On the contrary. The easier it is for us to fight, it gave us legitimacy. And for some reason I don't remember that Mansour Abbas ever went to Ramallah to meet with Abu Mazen, unlike other members of the government."

"The one who failed is Orbach. Whereas I think there was a 200% success, not 100%. When we take performance, results on the ground, this government succeeded."

"If we stick to our plans and become part of the government, I would without a doubt choose the three portfolios: treasury, internal security and justice - to fight serious crime, criminal organizations, and protection. Because when you have this complex in your hands, you can really act efficiently and effectively. Because To fight crime you also need the treasury - the income tax and the VAT, you also need budgets, and the Ministry of Justice.

Our deterrence is low, because currently the punishment is simply illogical and disproportionate.

She is so weak and completely irrelevant, even funny compared to the seriousness of the crime.

For example, the verdict of the terrorist from Acre, who was involved in riots at the Walls Guard.

He was caught and convicted of setting fire to the 'Hafendi' hotel, where the recipient of the Israel Security Award, Avi Har Evan, was murdered.

The motive was clearly racist.

And what was the punishment he received in the trial?

A year in prison.

The prosecution appealed, so the sentence increased to 22 months, and this was presented as a great victory for the system.

It's just mind boggling.

If you want to revolutionize the field of personal security,

These three ministries must be brought together, along with the Law, Constitution and Justice Committee.

With all this section concentrated in hand I could ensure proper order within four years.

If these files are divided between different parties - what will be will be.

And we are in an emergency situation, and there is no choice but to consolidate these three cases into one package.

But unlike the ten demands I listed, this is not an ultimatum."

"Their plans are not related to the fight against crime. This is not the issue they are interested in. Why is Bibi going over Shaked's head, even though it will cost him 2 mandates? Because he knows that if she passes, she will demand the Ministry of Justice. And he is not ready for that. In the Ministry of Justice He needs someone who will act in accordance with his interests, Netanyahu's. Whereas Shaked in the Ministry of Justice - for him it's a nightmare."

"I would continue in the Ministry of Finance. I think I did a good job there - I refer to the facts again. I tell everyone at every conference: 'Don't trust politicians, especially politicians before elections, including Avigdor Lieberman. Always refer to the facts'. What did Ben-Adam promise? What is he Did? I entered the Ministry of Finance on June 13, 2021. Unemployment was 9.4%, the deficit was 10.5%, growth forecasts were around 5%. We ended 2021 with growth of 8.2%, currently - with growth of 6.2%, with zero unemployment and zero deficit" .

OECD, credit rating companies.

We receive compliments from them like we have never received before."

"It's a question of monopoly and competition. And it is true that we suffer from megalomania, but sometimes we need to enter into proportion: we are a small economy overall. Our internal market amounts to about nine million customers. And the main orientation of our economy is export-import. Our three largest markets are the European Union , the United States and China. Those three markets have been affected. And when all three are in bad shape, it doesn't bode well for us either. But I think we've made all kinds of adjustments, we've been looking for new markets, and I think we're really acting responsibly and thoughtfully. So I'm very optimistic. If we have A sequence of four or five years, we will wink at Switzerland and we will definitely enter one of the five countries with the highest quality of life in the world."

"I think the greatest success was the passing of the biennial budget with the reforms. After all, no one believed that we would be able to do it. Whereas we quickly, without any economic discussion taking place for three years, came and passed it. Today it sounds very simple - 'I came and passed But once I made those decisions it was the most difficult with the most criticism and pressure. I remember how I was attacked in the media with all kinds of heartbreaking articles when the first thing I announced was that there was no more Halat.

Second thing I announced: no more closures, we live alongside the Corona virus.

Of course, I fell for that too.

And to Bennett's credit, it can be said that he both gave me full backing and stepped up with the booster, the third vaccine - all of this allowed us to function, expand and reach the performance, as we did."

"I am receiving support, but we are before the elections. There are fundamental differences of opinion on various issues. Also in the way teachers are treated, also in the issue of the self-employed. I remember the sanctions of Yesh Atid members in the finance committee. Even then, in the end, I was right, and in practice we had to pay a lot Less compensation than they estimated in advance. But in retrospect we are all wise."

"The biggest mistake was that I failed to pass the budget for 2023 as well. This is the biggest mistake, because it was an excellent budget with a lot of good news - especially in the areas we talked about: the economy, the development of research. A national program for artificial intelligence, a war on centralization. There were many Things we didn't succeed in. I hope that after the elections we will realize it."

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• Avigdor Lieberman

• Benjamin Netanyahu

• Yair Lapid