"Totally rethink": CDU General Secretary Czaja calls for "Lanz" to deal with AfD parliamentarians in a new way

Created: 12/08/2022 11:27 am

Markus Lanz with his guests on December 7th, 2022.

© ZDF Mediathek (Screenshot)

Markus Lanz dedicates his program to the background of the Reichsbürger raid on the same day.

CDU General Secretary Mario Czaja is promising tougher measures against the AfD. 

Hamburg - The Reichsbürger raid revealed a "terrifying view into the abyss", says CDU General Secretary Mario Czaja in the political talk with Markus Lanz on ZDF.

On the same day, the Federal Public Prosecutor Peter Frank had ordered the biggest blow against the right-wing extremist Reichsbürger scene since its inception.

Nationwide, forces from the anti-terrorist unit GSG 9 of the federal police and special units (SEK) of the federal states were deployed.

The background is worrying: supporters of the movement are said to have planned a coup and a violent attack on the Bundestag.

25 people were arrested during the 130 searches conducted across Germany for 52 suspects.

Among them was the former AfD member of the Bundestag and judge at the Berlin Regional Court, Birgit Malsack-Winkemann.

"Markus Lanz" - these guests discussed with:

• Mario Czaja -

  CDU General Secretary

• Sebastian Fiedler -

  former chairman of the Association of German Criminal Investigators and SPD domestic politician

• Melanie Amann -

  head of the

  Spiegel

  capital city office

• Olaf Sundermeyer -

  author and journalist

Against this background, Czaja expressed concern for the security of the members of the Bundestag and pointed to a possible security gap. AfD members of parliament could use their free Bundestag ID card to bring employees "to the German Bundestag without any checks," warned the CDU member of parliament.

According to the CDU politician, "the review of the AfD" must be "completely reconsidered by the Office for the Protection of the Constitution" nationwide.

More surveillance may be necessary, Czaja said.

The SPD politician and former detective Sebastian Fiedler agreed with Czaja's fears and warned of the criminal potential of the politically organized enemies of the state: "Those who have joined forces all have academic degrees, extensive information, access to weapons," said Fiedler.

It is currently theoretically possible for members of the Bundestag to enter the Bundestag “unexamined and, if in doubt, even armed”.

Security precautions were tightened weeks before the raid in the Bundestag

Czaja reported on stricter "security precautions in the Bundestag" that he had already observed in the last few weeks before the raid, including "barricades around the Bundestag".

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The personal protection of individual ministers, Czaja named Health Minister Karl Lauterbach by name, would have increased their security levels and finally accompanied those to be protected until just before the Bundestag hall - an "unusual" procedure, according to Czaja.

Death threats against Lauterbach and his family members had already become public in advance.

Spiegel

journalist Melanie Amman explained the growth of the radicals with the simplicity of their ideas: "It's a hands-on ideology," says Amman, which is not based on facts but on personal interpretations.

When asked, the general answer would often be: "Find out for yourself" and any means would do.

Lanz also spoke of a "worldwide movement" of conspiracy theorists, which was accompanied by a "certain madness" that did not understand the difference between "opinion" and "facts".

The "uncanny", according to the moderator, is that you don't know "how many there are and how we can get to them".

Ex-detective warns of global movement of 'conspiracy theorists'

Fiedler confirmed Lanz's descriptions.

Even the suspects in the current raid are not exclusively so-called Reich citizens and right-wing extremists.

Fiedler spoke of "conspiracy extremism" and "right-wing conspiracy terrorism" in which the "connecting ideological element" is that they believe in "completely crazy myths".

According to the SPD expert, there is still no “recipe” on how to counteract this.

Czaja and Fideler praised the efforts of the more than 3,000 investigators who were deployed for the major raid.

Fiedler referred to the "scope of the investigations", which would have made covert, complex investigative measures necessary over an "incredibly long period" and in "several federal states", isolated from each other and under strict secrecy.

Fiedler: "In terms of scope, it goes beyond all dimensions".

However, the former chairman of the Association of German Criminal Investigators warned of the weaknesses of the democratic system if the majorities develop in a radical direction.

Fiedler: "These people all have a voice and can choose..."

Author Olaf Sundermeyer noted that a “growing distrust” could be observed in democracies around the world and predicted further radicalisation.

But he also found: "But we don't have the same conditions as in the USA." "Democracy in Germany" works.

There are "weak points", but there can be no talk of "decay".

Melanie Amman criticized German immigration policies and legislation, especially regarding German citizenship.

It is no longer up-to-date and comprehensible that, among other things, a US citizen who has lived in Germany for 20 years, speaks the language and pays taxes only gets German citizenship if he renounces American citizenship.

Czaja, on the other hand, referred to 130,000 naturalizations last year.

Conclusion of the "Markus Lanz" talk

The talk continued the special series on ARD and ZDF on the day's major raid and gave important insights into the background.

Opportunities to combat anti-democratic movements found little space.

Psychological aspects of the movement were mentioned, but here too the possibility of dealing with them was missed.