Klingbeil etches Lanz: "I'm glad that the CDU is the largest opposition party and not the AfD"

Created: 12/14/2022 10:32 am

Lars Klingbeil (SPD party chairman) as a guest of Markus Lanz.

© Screenshot/ZDF Mediathek

Sacks full of money in the European Parliament and a curious raid on citizens of the Reich - Markus Lanz asks why the public's displeasure is growing.

Hamburg – The Vice President of the EU Parliament, Eva Kaili, is caught with plastic bags full of money.

"It looks like one of the not uncommon cases of corruption," says political scientist Wolfgang Merkel, and for journalist Helene Bubrowski it seems to be just the tip of the iceberg.

“Why do the Katari give so much money to this person?” she asks.

After all, the Greek woman "doesn't have as much power" as, for example, the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen.

She sees here "exactly what the worst conspiracy theorists imagine".

This puts the round with moderator Markus Lanz right in the middle of the evening's topic: conspiracy theories, Nazis, right-wing extremists, conservatives and Reich citizens.

The terms are wildly mixed, especially by Tobias Ginsburg, who is officially presented as an “expert”.

The reason for the discussion is the big raid, which has been raising questions for days.

3000 police officers against 25 suspected pensioners, a registered hunting weapon and food supplies.

Ginsburg himself, who sniffed the scene undercover years ago, draws a curious picture of the scene.

He speaks of "New Age esoterics," pan-Europeans, and nobles who feared "losing their privileges."

Even the term "hollow earth" is mentioned.

The citizens of the Reich would be annoyed that they didn't get a thousand-year Reich, but "only a crappy twelve" years.

These guests discussed with Markus Lanz on December 13, 2022:

• Lars Klingbeil

  (SPD party chairman)

• Helene Bubrowski

  (journalist, FAZ)

• Tobias Ginsburg

  (was undercover in the Reichbürger scene)

• Wolfgang Merkel

  (political scientist)

Klingbeil on "Lanz" (ZDF): "Doubts about the state are increasing"

"The business model isn't that far either," says Lanz, and Ginsburg continues: "Where there's fear, there's real ash to be made." The undercover researcher draws a surprising parallel to the Corona period.

He describes the demonstrations against state coercive measures as a "fog of confusion and existential fears".

Mask deals, lockdowns and vaccination pressure would have threatened people's existence.

But are the Reich citizens who have now been arrested "just loudmouths, some kind of preppers?" Bubrowski wants to know.

Maybe they only play with tin soldiers?

Ginsburg criticizes the media: It's just "easy to make a five-minute report about the strangest, flashiest, most confused guy with the stupidest hat who says: I'm the emperor now".

SPD leader Klingbeil observed that “doubts about the state” were growing in his constituency.

"The insecurity in society is increasing," he says.

People have drifted into confused explanations.

Markus Lanz with his guests on December 13th, 2022.

© Screenshot/ZDF Mediathek

Political scientist Merkel urges prudence.

To speak of an impending coup is "absurd".

For Bubrowski, however, it is high time to intensify state control.

Klingbeil also warns that these people eventually met and were armed.

He emphasizes it again: all armed.

In this context, he also warns against the AfD, which he describes as the “parliamentary arm” of this scene.

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Bubrowski calls for mass surveillance.

It is too difficult for the state to recognize who is dangerous and who is not.

Merkel counters: "Do we now want to strengthen all kinds of security laws and checks, or do we have a well-functioning constitutional state?" he asks, citing his own experience as a cautionary tale.

He himself was a victim of the Radicals Decree as a young man and was barred from sporting charity simply for criticizing the Vietnam War.

Bubrowski on "Lanz" (ZDF): Raid was "call for love and attention"

The fact that the raid was staged like an operetta bothers the group that evening.

"I would also have wished that it hadn't been made so public," says Klingbeil.

Brubowski recalls the arrest of Jörg Kachelmann and Klaus Zumwinkel, the head of the post office at the time.

However, she sees the spectacle with dozens of reporters and in front of running TV cameras as a "call for love and attention from the police".

Lanz is bothered by the fact that all suspects were published without pixels and with real names.

The presumption of innocence is violated here.

Bubrowski agrees: “Someone who is arrested like this will never recover from it in their life.

It sticks forever.” Ginsburg, however, is for a hard hand: “You can’t accommodate conspiracy ideologues like that.”

Merkel: Every democracy must be measured by how it treats its minorities.”

Lanz complains about the narrowing of the corridor of opinion, which he also knows from his own programs.

"If I'm awkward about gendering, I'm immediately the stupid sexist.

And if I express concern that migration in this country is still something that we somehow don't have a good handle on, then I'm immediately a miserable racist."

Merkel agrees with him.

Positions that were previously only on the right are now suddenly unspeakable.

“We have a tendency to make the debate space insanely narrow.

Every democracy must be measured by how it treats its minorities." Klingbeil agrees: "There is only black and white, there is only yes/no." He still has a caustic compliment in store: He is happy, " that the CDU is the largest opposition party and not the AfD".

Conclusion of the talk at Markus Lanz (ZDF): Klingbeil looks pale

The rhetorically strong Kingbeil seemed pale that evening.

Nobody pinched him.

So he got away with campaign talk.

The topic of pensions, initially announced by Lanz, fell completely by the wayside.

Why the Germans should suddenly work so much longer will be clarified in a later broadcast.