Gauck criticizes the strategy of the "last generation": Ex-Federal President warns of "special morality"

Created: 12/16/2022, 11:01 am

Maybrit Illner discussed with former Federal President Joachim Gauck.

© Jule Roehr/ZDF

In Maybrit Illner, Joachim Gauck presents himself as a strict defender of democracy.

According to the ex-Federal President, arms should continue to be delivered to Ukraine in order to defend them.

Berlin – At the end of the year, the ZDF political talk show "Maybrit Illner" is celebratory.

After the annual review was presented to ZDF colleague Markus Lanz on the same night, Illner also looked back at the events of the year that was ending.

On her left is the former Federal President Joachim Gauck, who describes himself on the show as a "grandfather type" and is now allowed to comment on big politics with Illner with a family habit and in a sympathetic baritone narrator.

The recorded conversation is preceded and followed by a group of three, in which Green Youth Chairwoman Sarah-Lee Heinrich Gauck takes his place, flanked by former presenter Claus Kleber and historian Prof. Hedwig Richter from the Bundeswehr -University in Munich.

"Maybrit Illner" - these guests took part in the discussion

• Joachim Gauck

   – Federal President aD

• Claus Kleber

   – ZDF moderator, documentary filmmaker

• Sarah-Lee Heinrich 

  - Federal Chairwoman of the Green Youth

• Prof.

  _

  Hedwig Richter 

  – Professor of Modern and Contemporary History at the University of the Federal Armed Forces in Munich

But first to Gauck: The clear words of the experienced statesman have a calming effect, but even the moderator feels too homely in some places.

When Gauck is asked about Chancellor Olaf Scholz' attitude towards Ukraine politics and he replies: "Now let's praise him first...", Illner has to laugh and counters the statesman: "Because it's Christmas...?!".

Gauck looks puzzled for a moment, but quickly recovers.

He seriously believes that when it comes to arms deliveries, things could "go faster" for him personally, but he doesn't want to let it slip that the Chancellor's "turning point speech" four days after Russia's attack on Ukraine "should be judged favorably". .

Presenter Maybrit Illner with her guests Claus Kleber, Sarah-Lee Heinrich and Prof. Hedwig Richter.

© Jule Roehr/ZDF

Putin's attack: Joachim Gauck calls for more weapons for Ukraine at Maybrit Illner

According to Gauck, you showed the right "awareness".

"But an announcement of the turning point also includes a policy of turning the tide," he warns.

"The misery in Ukraine is so great, it's all so disgusting that we have to do more!".

But the Federal President is certain: "Scholz will do it".

Gauck explains the fear of the consequences of the "turn of the era" in a time of many upheavals with a constant proportion of the population of value-conservative people who are basically "afraid of modernity" and who find changes difficult in principle.

"Many see a development in which so much is changing as frightening," explains the retired statesman - that's not just the situation in Germany.

Gauck refers to a study that estimated this fact in around a third of the population in over two dozen countries.

On the other hand, the proportion that Gauck describes as “enemies of democracy” is much smaller.

The danger here would clearly come from the “extreme right” side of the political spectrum.

Gauck appeals for prudence, but also calls for resilience: "We have to endure when people want to remain stupid.

But we don't have to put up with it if they fundamentally attack our constitution."

Gauck keeps the danger from "enemies of democracy" manageable: "Have a stable center"

Gauck contradicts the view that the right-wing extremists, who are suspected of being terrorists, should be seen in the middle of society.

Gauck emphasizes: "We have an extremely stable center." Among the right-wing extremists there are also many "crazy people", says Gauck and explains: "You will never have a government that consists only of dolts." These people did not scare him.

Even ZDF moderator Kleber does not see in "this bunch" of Reich citizens that "something orderly, dangerous" for the democratic order of the country could grow from it.

However, he warns against individual actions such as the murder of Walter Lübcke, which are frightening.

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Prof. Hedwig Richter referred to the long history of right-wing extremist terror in Germany, which has been going on for many decades, but which many people are not aware of.

When it comes to terror, many tend to think of the RAF and left-wing groups, but the facts are different.

She is not surprised that former soldiers were also arrested during the Reichsbürger raid last week.

Gauck is also of the opinion: "It was always like that." Even among lawyers there are traditional right-wing extremists, according to the former pastor and refers to the constitutional lawyer Carl Schmitt from the 1930s, who is considered one of the early supporters of Adolf Hitler.

Gauck has little understanding for "climate glue": acquire no sympathy

Gauck classifies the so-called “climate stickers” as a “completely different thing”.

Gauck clarifies that they do not currently pose any threat to democratic society.

However, a destabilizing situation could develop if "acting in excess of the norm" became the means to assert one's own concerns.

Gauck therefore warns against a "special morality" of individual groups, which in principle harbors the danger of undermining the rule of law.

Green youth leader Sarah-Lee Heinrich later defended the actions and referred to the "desperation" of young people who were seriously concerned about their future and gave the impression that the end justifies the means for them too.

This is exactly where the difference to Gauck's attitude becomes apparent, who makes it clear: "As an individual or a group, I am not allowed to say, equipped with a special morality: 'My morality is more important than the norms of our law'".

Gauck called for a rethinking of the actions: "If more than 80 percent of the people who live here do not like these actions, with 60 percent finding the concerns good, then the strategy is obviously not very suitable for gaining sympathy."

Conclusion of the "Maybrit Illner" talk

The show offered a retrospective with a clever mind and down-to-earth classification.

You often wish for this kind of thing on German television.

Perhaps it would be healthy to let the older generation, who are no longer involved in active positions, have their say regularly, and not just at the end of the year.

A little wisdom and life experience from time to time would probably do society no harm.