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Exclusive Interview With Cardinal Marx: "I Think I've Evolved"

2022-12-24T05:36:41.756Z


Exclusive Interview With Cardinal Marx: "I Think I've Evolved" Created: 2022-12-24 06:21 By: Claudia Möllers, Georg Anastasiadis Cardinal Reinhard Marx preaches at the service in the Liebfrauendom. © Angelika Warmuth/dpa/archive image Reinhard Marx speaks in an exclusive interview about the Ukraine war and migration, but also comments on abuse and necessary church reforms. Christmas this year


Exclusive Interview With Cardinal Marx: "I Think I've Evolved"

Created: 2022-12-24 06:21

By: Claudia Möllers, Georg Anastasiadis

Cardinal Reinhard Marx preaches at the service in the Liebfrauendom.

© Angelika Warmuth/dpa/archive image

Reinhard Marx speaks in an exclusive interview about the Ukraine war and migration, but also comments on abuse and necessary church reforms.

Christmas this year is a festival with many challenges: in global politics with the war in Ukraine, in domestic politics with concerns about the energy supply, in church politics with the abuse and reform debate.

Is there still hope?

We talked about it with Munich Cardinal Reinhard Marx.

Marx on the Orthodox Church in the Ukraine War: "Kyrill's attitude is an abuse of religion"

Mr. Marx, we are further away from a peaceful Christmas than we could have imagined a year ago.

Putin's war against Ukraine is relentless.

What message of hope does the Church have?

That war does not have the last word!

I'm shocked at how long it lasts and how brutal it is.

At the moment I can't see how this is going to end.

I only know: it will come to an end.

It is unimaginable that the war lasted for years.

But the path will be more difficult than initially imagined.

Every war is a defeat for mankind, said Pope John Paul II.

Can you explain why Pope Francis has not made such a clear statement for a long time?

He has already made it clear that this war is an evil.

He also spoke of the unjustified attack, but it was a bit reticent.

I was able to speak to him a few days ago.

I have the impression that the diplomacy of the Holy See still wants to keep some door open to look for a thread of conversation, including on Russian Orthodoxy.

At some point there has to be talks.

Then who should talk?

Who starts?

The Vatican could also come into view.

Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill supports Putin's war.

What is this unholy alliance?

That is shocking!

Cyril's attitude is an abuse of religion.

All other Christian churches have said that clearly.

But does Cyril speak for all Russian Orthodoxy?

I am convinced that there are also other voices that cannot express themselves now.

One must keep in contact with them for the hour that is to come.

We should not condemn all Christians of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Marx's reaction to rising migration: "Fences are not the first answer"

In our country, too, Putin's diabolical attack has pushed people into poverty - especially pensioners and single parents.

What can church do about it?

We have set a small sign in the Archdiocese.

We are helping those who are particularly in need with an additional 4.6 million euros.

This is done through the Archdiocese's relief fund and Caritas.

The money comes from additional income from the church tax, which results from the energy price lump sum paid out in September.

There will be people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in rather precarious circumstances.

A society and we as a church have to show that we are in solidarity.

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Fancy a journey of discovery?

My space

What is Christian duty?

to be attentive!

Pay attention to your neighborhood, your neighbors.

As an institution, we also keep our eyes and ears open: Caritas is on site!

You should look, and then you have to do something.

A new wave of refugees is coming our way.

Manfred Weber, leader of the European People's Party, says we have to build fences to protect ourselves.

What do you make of it?

Fences are not the first answer.

We experienced that in 2015/16, even if we have a completely different situation today.

We have a million Ukrainian refugees in Germany.

So far it has been relatively easy, many have found accommodation privately.

Now they are looking for a permanent place to stay - and don't want to be housed in gyms, which I understand.

That is a lot of pressure, because other refugees from the crisis areas around the Mediterranean, from Syria, from Afghanistan, but also from Russia, are also coming.

what has to happen

A regulated procedure is still necessary.

Everyone who comes to us has the right to be examined as to whether they are entitled to apply for asylum.

And if he can ask him, then he stays here.

We are a constitutional state, laws apply.

We cannot accept the situation at the border in Greece, for example.

This is unworthy.

We can't say: That's none of our business, we'll put up a fence and don't worry about it.

I know Manfred Weber, but he expressed himself in a somewhat more differentiated way.

He is probably in favor of strengthening controls at the external borders and functioning solidarity mechanisms.

It is always important that there are procedures that respect human rights and human dignity.

Despite this, unlike the evangelical church, you have not chartered any refugee ships.

But I, as archbishop, and we, as archdiocese, financially supported private sea rescue initiatives.

Because it is unacceptable that we people who - we don't know for what reasons - set off at risk of life, let ourselves drown in the Mediterranean.

We must at least let them come ashore and check: What is your concern?

why did you flee

It doesn't go below this standard.

Cardinal Reinhard Marx has been Archbishop of Munich and Freising since 2008.

© Armin Weigel/dpa

Reform processes in the church: "It won't be that easy"

2022 is also a difficult year for the Church.

Every 4th church member is thinking of leaving, the bishops are hopelessly at odds over the "synodal path" ...

Hopelessly maybe not….

What about the church in Germany?

What about religion as a whole?

We must ask ourselves: What role should churches play in an open, fragmented society?

At least not like in the past, when we lived in closed milieus, where being Catholic or Evangelical was part of the immovable identity of a family.

A lot of people think: We'll just become more modern and then people will come back.

It won't be that easy.

It is a process that bishops have to face: to bring the core of the gospel to shine again.

Make it clear what gain it is spiritually, humanly, spiritually if I am a Christian.

Many question that...

... and everyone discusses leaving the church and scenarios of doom every week, I know.

It's important to me that we look ahead and work to make it clear to the younger generation: This is a community that has a future.

What should I do?

The involvement of everyone must be intensified.

But it won't go in the simple sense: Let's adapt once, let's just follow every new trend.

Then we have a church in which everyone opens their little “allotment garden”.

We want to be a community where people come together on Sundays and everyone says: That gave us strength.

A community that brings many together.

Reinhard Marx: "We have a problem that the Germans don't always see fully"

You were so desperate that in 2021 you declared the church had reached a "deadlock".

Has this deadlock been overcome?

In connection with my offer of resignation, I had this concept of the Jesuit Alfred Delp in mind.

A dead point is not the end for me.

It's that we can't continue like this at certain points.

We have to reposition ourselves.

This is not done with individual measures.

We can't just rely on established traditions either.

Tradition can be of great help, especially in Bavaria.

But when it becomes an empty shell, you feel that that alone is not enough for the next generations.

Nor is it about civil-religious rituals and morals.

Jesus proclaimed that the kingdom of God was coming, that heaven could touch earth.

Now!

And not just when we're dead.

You have to set out for the future.

I would like that.

But I think that goes beyond my lifetime.

It's about the central points, not just about celibacy or women's diaconate.

These issues are important, but they don't solve the core of the problem.

You are one of the fathers of the "Synodal Path", which aims to achieve reforms in the Church.

Could he end up in a dead end?

No, I do not think so.

It will continue in the Synodal Committee.

Later we will be church together in a different way.

I don't see a point from which we have solved all problems.

But we have to let everyone help shape it.

Involve the lay people more.

The office of bishop will continue to exist, the office of priest....

Maybe deaconesses?

Yes, maybe.

We have a problem that Germans don't always fully understand: the church is a universal church.

We are faced with the challenge of how to bring unity and diversity together.

There are some questions like the role of women and the priesthood - we can't just clarify that in Germany.

But we need more diversity and autonomy in the local churches.

Despite the negative mood in the Vatican?

There isn't just one mood in the Vatican.

This is not a monolithic block.

The Pope is open to the fact that the path continues.

But he has to keep everything in perspective.

As bishops, we want to work to ensure that it is still possible to follow the path of the Church as a whole.

You were once considered a traditionalist...

Oh well...

... and have become reformers.

I hope I have evolved.

In the church area I was cautiously conservative.

Especially in the liturgy.

I never liked it when people experimented with it.

But I've reviewed and changed opinions over the past 40 years.

As a young chaplain, I was against girls becoming altar boys.

I thought you could see the boys could be priests - and the girls mess that up.

I don't see it that way anymore.

My sister still reproaches me for this old conception.

She herself could not become an altar boy at the time.

I agree with her today!

Too little done in the abuse scandal?

“This does not apply to our diocese”

Let's get to the abuse scandal.

In 2010 you spoke of an “annus horribilis”, a year of horrors.

What have the past twelve years been like?

Intense work!

That's why I don't think it's right to say that the church hasn't done anything.

In the beginning it took too long for us to grasp the dimension.

The social field of discussion is different than 20 years ago: think of #MeToo.

Thank goodness you noticed!

The Catholic Church has had the issue examined and evaluated in several reports.

Now we can say: There is no other institution that is as advanced in prevention and processing as we are!

You have exchanged blows with the state government, which accuses you of the church having to do more.

You disagreed.

Minister of Justice Georg Eisenreich now points out that the Archdiocese of Munich is exemplary in clarifying the matter.

But of the seven Bavarian dioceses, five have not yet commissioned an expert opinion.

We're not finished with the topic.

But when you criticize, you have to say what you mean.

If there is a headline in your newspaper "Bavaria reprimands the churches", I swallow!

I have to say: It doesn't work that flat rate!

The Bavarian bishops had long talks with the state government in May.

The processing has been agreed with the independent commissioner of the federal government.

To say that the state is not involved in the processing is not correct.

The state has also specified the criteria.

There is an agreement.

Couldn't a truth commission like the one set up in Ireland pacify the situation?

We have a completely independent review commission, also made up of members sent by the Free State.

If the Bavarian state would like to appoint an independent commissioner or an ombudsman, it should do so.

But then for all areas.

I have nothing against the state doing more.

The fact that the public comes across that we have done too little - I have to say for our diocese: that's not true!

But we can certainly continue to work on agreements.

We should work on that together.

Would you like all Bavarian dioceses to commission expert opinions?

As bishops, we have committed ourselves to clarifying responsibilities and looking at systemic causes.

Now all dioceses have set up independent review commissions.

They are now in charge of processing.

We as bishops have consciously given this to these commissions.

What had to be intensified was contact with those affected.

I have been in contact with those affected since 2010.

However, on request.

I have to admit: it should have been done more intensively.

But in recent years I have had many conversations with those affected.

We have worked through deficits and are still there.

We have also set up a pastoral care center for those affected.

"We are safe in God's hands, every day is a gift"

What do you think of the protest of the "Young Generation"?

Basically, I can understand the concerns of the young people.

It is clear that more needs to be done to preserve creation.

Protest may be imaginative, but one should abide by the law.

Many people are afraid of 2023. Do you have hope for the new year?

I always move on with hope.

I can understand that there are concerns, but as believing Christians we know: We are safe in God's hands.

We didn't make our lives.

Every day is a gift, an opportunity to do good, to be joyful and full of hope.

This certainty can keep you from slipping into deep depression in times of need or illness.

If God became man, then it is good to be a man.

I can look forward to that every day.

Interview: Claudia Möllers and Georg Anastasiadis

Source: merkur

All news articles on 2022-12-24

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