Once again there is a discussion about what to do about the shortage of skilled workers.
Hubertus Heil relies on immigration.
Joachim Herrmann wants to set tight limits.
Berlin – Federal Minister of Labor Hubertus Heil (SPD) was a guest of Markus Lanz just last week.
The appearance on the ARD program “hart aber fair” follows this Monday, but the topic is identical: immigration into the German labor market.
Anyone who has followed Heil's performance at Lanz will recognize the minister's demands, promises and arguments.
Some of the sentences are even word for word.
The reason why it is still worth following the show is: Joachim Herrmann (CSU).
The Interior Minister of Bavaria talks himself into a rage and fills the first of the three words in the name of the program with life.
"The shortage of skilled workers has now even reached the federal government," jokes the journalist Gabor Steingart, referring to the resignation of Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht (SPD), thus introducing the topic of this evening.
In the clip, a study is quoted according to which 400,000 additional migrants are needed in Germany every year in order to fill all the jobs.
Astrid Sartorius is head of the “Foreign Acquisitions for Nursing” department at the Asklepios Kliniken.
In the past year, it has integrated immigrants from 39 nations into the Group.
These come in particular from the Philippines, Iran, India and Mexico.
Zoff at "Hard but fair": Heil and Herrmann clash when it comes to migration
Lamya Kaddor, member of the Bundestag for the Greens, feels that the question of whether Germany is a country of immigration is outdated: “We have been complaining about a shortage of skilled workers for 20 years and we have been a country of immigration for just as long.” Currently, every fourth person in the country has “an immigration biography”.
Kaddor suspects that in ten years it could be every third or every second person.
"The distinction between who has a migration background and who doesn't no longer makes sense," she feels.
"The baby boomer generation is gradually retiring," explains Hubertus Heil.
"Even if we pull out all the stops domestically, it's still not enough," emphasizes the man from Lower Saxony.
"In 2035 we will be short of seven million workers." Joachim Herrmann had to stand still for 15 minutes.
But then TV presenter Loius Klamroth finally lets him off the leash for the first time.
"You're right, we need qualified immigration," Herrmann shouts in the direction of the federal minister, "but we also have a lot of illegal immigrants who don't want to work and they have to get out of here." The Cologne studio audience gave the Bavarian applause for this .
And Gabor Steingart jumps on the wave: "We don't just need migrants, we need the right ones."
“Hard but fair” – these guests will join the discussion on January 16th:
Hubertus Heil (SPD)
– Federal Labor Minister
Joachim Herrmann (CSU)
– Bavarian Interior Minister
Lamya Kaddor (Greens)
– Member of Parliament
– Asklepios Clinics
Migration in Germany: clinic manager is annoyed by bureaucracy when recruiting skilled workers
Hubertus Heil agrees, but he points out that Germany "has a competitive disadvantage".
There are 100 million people who speak German.
"Eighty million of them already live here." To compensate for this, a "modern immigration law" must be created that reduces bureaucracy.
Astrid Sartorius claps his hands.
"On a scale of one to ten, the nerve factor of bureaucracy is a plus ten," she says, shaking her head.
Now, according to the will of the federal government, the "opportunity card" should provide relief and clarity.
Anyone who collects a certain number of points, for example through language skills, through employment or the length of their stay, can therefore apply for German citizenship.
"I have nothing against a points system," counters Herrmann, who is becoming increasingly energetic and loud.
Heil tries to stop - failure.
Herrmann gets louder every time.
Finally, Heil is enough: "We don't want to throw the German passports around," he interjects.
Interior Minister Herrmann against dual citizenship: "You have to decide"
When asked about the statement by ex-transport minister Alexander Dobrindt (CSU) that German citizenship is now being "sold up", Herrmann puts it into perspective.
Dobrindt said this in connection with dual citizenship.
"It used to be the exception, now it should become the rule," complains the Bavarian Minister of the Interior.
For him an absurdity, "you have to decide".
A murmur and wild confusion follows.
Right in the middle is Herrmann, who is the only one who can be heard throughout and scolds the traffic light's migration policy, but also shouts from Lamya Kaddor.
A dispute also breaks out with regard to the easier naturalization of the first generation of guest workers, as planned by Hubertus Heil.
While the minister describes it as a "question of decency" to enable these people to naturalize despite a lack of language skills, Herrmann no longer understands the world: "They had time for that for 50 years now."
Visiting Louis Klamroth: Joachim Herrmann (CSU, State Ministry of the Interior, for Sport and Integration).
© WDR/Oliver Ziebe
The self-proclaimed "Lower Saxon draft horse" Hubertus Heil tries to have a calming effect, but is part of the mess.
"Here in Bavaria, integration into the labor market works, while in Bremen and Berlin we only talk about it," says Herrmann.
"Actually, I like you," Heil shouts in the direction of Herrmann, "I understand some of the sayings as part of the election campaign that is about to start in Bavaria."
And Louis Klamroth?
While he was reticent on his debut last week, he now comes across as having picked up quite a bit of routine in a week's time.
This time, the 33-year-old shows casual sayings, persistent questions and quick-wittedness.
"hard but fair" - conclusion of the show:
A big thank you to the editor who came up with the beneficial idea of inviting Joachim Herrmann to the group.
No matter how you feel about the Bavarian Minister of the Interior: guests who are so impulsive and sometimes angry enrich the discussion at “
hard but fair
It's just a pity that the discussions at their boiling points were not continued, but stopped.
List of rubrics: © WDR/Oliver Ziebe