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Faro in southern Portugal is known for its sunny climate - and yet many people freeze here every winter
Photo: Sabine Van Rooij/EyeEm/Getty Images
SPIEGEL:
Mr. Gouveia, to start with a very fundamental question: How would you define energy poverty?
João Pedro Gouveia:
For me, it involves several things.
The most obvious is someone's inability to heat adequately.
But it's also about other forms of energy use: That you can afford to have enough lighting in your own home or to cook.
It is not only important whether you can afford energy, but also whether you can insulate your home in such a way that the heat stays in.
Of course, all of this can be measured in numbers, just like other forms of poverty.
But it's important for me to show that it's not just about freezing in winter.
SPIEGEL:
This clarification also seems important because Portugal in Central Europe is actually more likely to have reliable sunshine and summery temperatures
is associated.
But according to the EU, few countries suffer from energy poverty as badly as yours.
Why is this such a big challenge?
Government:
First of all, high energy costs are not only a problem when it's cold – but also when it's hot when you have to constantly cool.
There are also historically special reasons that ensure that we are in a much worse position than people in Spain or Italy: Portugal was poor and isolated until the 1970s.
The building structure is therefore often very simple and not particularly solid to this day.
Since then there has been a rapid race to catch up in almost all areas of society, which has led to millions of people moving to urban centers in just a few decades.
Many were built quickly and cheaply.
Until 1990 there were no isolation regulations.
All of this means that today 80 percent of residential buildings are badly or very badly insulated.
And lack of insulation is the biggest problem,
when it comes to efficient heating.
If you build cheaply, you have to heat expensively.
SPIEGEL:
What are the consequences for those affected?
Gouveia:
Without adequate warmth, they get sick faster, their quality of life decreases and they are less able to work.
Many people have gotten used to the fact that they can only heat one room in the house.
Fuel poverty causes hundreds or thousands of deaths every year.
SPIEGEL:
But now you're exaggerating.
Gouveia:
Unfortunately no.
The recurring cold leads to health problems, along with emissions from stoves and old chimneys - so people live in unhealthy conditions for years.
The problem: We consider these circumstances to be normal.
Anyone who enters a house in Portugal in winter
often says mockingly as a greeting: It was warmer outside than here!
And unfortunately that's often true.
SPIEGEL: To
what extent are the Ukraine war and climate change exacerbating the problem?
Gouveia:
We are not dependent on Russia for energy.
But the rising prices mean that many people will have to save this winter.
The heating is usually easier than eating or driving a car.
In the past few weeks, the winter weather of all things has ensured that the energy supply has become somewhat easier for a short time.
In the summer we had one of the worst droughts in our history.
It's been raining for weeks now and the reservoirs are full to the brim again, so power generation isn't a problem at the moment.
In the long term, however, the problems will of course increase, and we are already among the countries most severely affected by energy poverty.
SPIEGEL:
Why weren't the causes addressed earlier if it's such a widespread problem?
Gouveia:
Not only is there a lack of awareness, there is also a lack of tangible solutions.
Many people simply have no idea what energy efficiency class their house has and how it could be improved.
If you ask them what their biggest problem is, they say: electricity prices.
Many craftsmen lack the knowledge of what modern insulation looks like today.
Incidentally, we hear that from other European countries as well.
The result: we turn on the oven instead of sealing the roof.
In times of climate change and energy shortages, that won't last much longer.
SPIEGEL:
You and your team have been collecting data on this for years and interviewing people all over Portugal.
What did you learn from it?
Government:
Many families have to think about which rooms to heat in the winter.
Parents then have to decide who should freeze.
An electric oven is often placed in the children's room so that it is at least a little warm there.
These devices have always been power guzzlers, but in today's world the energy consumption is no longer justifiable.
But many radiators generate electricity costs of seven to eight euros per hour.
Do the math for one night!
We have found that many people only know this vaguely.
They often think that electricity is automatically cheaper at night.
But that hasn't been the case for a long time and depends on the tariff.
Energy poverty is therefore also a question of education.
Last but not least, there is an urban-rural divide.
Far fewer people live in many regions today than in the past.
SPIEGEL:
The EU reconstruction plan has ensured that energy-related refurbishments are sometimes generously subsidised.
Can this solve the problem?
Government:
The Portuguese government has set up two programs to distribute EU funds.
The first is general for renovation work.
It's very popular because the money is paid directly and reimburses a lot of the cost, but unfortunately many people only use it to install heat pumps or replace windows.
Solar cells are also popular because everyone easily understands how they work.
This is all understandable, but is of little use in winter if the insulation remains poor.
The second program distributes vouchers for energy renovations to people on low incomes.
The plan was that 20,000 vouchers would be issued annually for five years.
We are now in our second year – and not even 10,000 refurbishments have been initiated in total.
SPIEGEL:
You advise the government and are active in various European committees.
Do you have an idea how to do it better?
Gouveia:
We should distribute the vouchers more at the local level.
In order to reach people more directly and to create practical contact points, we have already set up containers in the centers of some towns.
There, people can get tips on their electricity bills, help with applications for subsidies or free energy advice for their households.
Things are working better in these communities now.
But there are still many hurdles.
As in most European countries, most people in Portugal own the home they live in.
Addressing them all individually is a mammoth task.
It will probably take decades to renovate our homes.
Despite all the problems, I also have hope: we are constantly being forced to see which concepts are best.
This enables us to develop skills and spread knowledge about modern insulation widely.
This can be an opportunity for our democratic coexistence.
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