The Munich engine builder MTU Aero expects electric passenger aircraft as early as the mid-2030s.
This was announced by the new MTU boss Lars Wagner in an interview with Merkur.
Munich – Many corporations make a big fuss about a change of boss.
At MTU Aero Engines, things went almost silently: in 2022, Reiner Winkler, who led the Munich engine builder to the leading German index Dax, announced his retirement and presented former CTO Lars Wagner as his successor.
At the turn of the year, Wagner took up the post.
The new boss relies on continuity and likes to point out that he has worked closely with Winkler in the team for the past few years.
Major course changes and changes are therefore not to be expected.
The machine builder Wagner is more concerned with the future of flying, because like the car industry, aircraft construction is also in the midst of a radical change.
MTU boss Lars Wagner on flight shame and the future of aviation
Mr. Wagner, as the new MTU boss, you will certainly have to travel a lot in the coming years.
Are you actually ashamed of flying?
No I haven't.
Flying moves people, connects cultures, transports goods at high speed and is an elementary part of our open world.
Sure, it's not always necessary to fly halfway around the world for a meeting.
Corona also taught us that.
All in all, I always enjoy boarding a plane.
Air travel is a major problem for the climate.
Most of the C02 is caused by the engines.
What are you doing about it?
Our engines get better from generation to generation.
Modern engines emit up to 50 percent less CO2 than models that were in operation 30 or 40 years ago.
That's a very big step forward
That will not be enough to make flying climate-neutral.
Are electric planes with batteries conceivable, analogous to electric cars?
Batteries make sense today in small two- or four-seaters, but not in commercial aircraft.
On a plane with 250 seats, you would have to equip the entire cargo area of the plane with a huge battery.
That would simply be too difficult.
So that's not possible.
But then what works?
If there is to be electromobility when flying, it will run via the fuel cell.
It uses hydrogen and oxygen from the air to produce electricity, which drives the turbine.
This is one of our major research priorities.
Together with the German Aerospace Center we bought a Dornier Do228, it's a 20-seater.
We want to equip it with a fuel cell engine and get it up in the air by the middle of the decade.
So fuel cells are the solution for flying?
Yes, that is a promising way.
Airbus and other companies in the industry are also working on this drive technology.
So far, however, Airbus has not said exactly which aircraft they could equip with it.
Which planes would be suitable for this?
We are targeting fuel cell propulsion for aircraft that can carry 50 to 100 passengers over 1000 nautical miles - that is 1800 kilometers.
That's enough for about three quarters of all European routes.
Therefore, in the future we will probably have many more small regional and commuter aircraft than is the case today because they can be operated better electrically.
With the fuel cell, regional flights would no longer be harmful to the climate.
This would also have settled the issue of flight shame.
MTU boss Lars Wagner
When will we fly electrically?
2050?
Or 2060?
This will go faster.
Our standards are high and the pressure from politics and society is also great.
This increases the pace of innovation.
For aircraft with 20 or 30 seats, I expect the market launch of the fuel cell to be as early as the first half of the 2030s.
Does that mean Greta Thunberg could board a plane in just over ten years without a guilty conscience?
Absolutely!
With the fuel cell, regional flights would no longer be harmful to the climate.
This would also have settled the issue of flight shame.
Airplanes would suddenly be able to compete with cars, buses and trains again in terms of the climate balance.
And what about medium and long-haul routes?
Will they also be electrified?
Medium and long-haul aircraft must continue to be powered by gas turbines because they are too big for electric drives.
But they too could be made CO2-neutral.
How come?
By replacing kerosene as a fuel.
Our gas turbines are already capable of burning hydrogen and synthetic fuels.
You just have to get them certified.
Technically, that would not be a problem.
Then why haven't you done that yet?
Because until now synthetic fuels have only been available in homeopathic doses.
You have to build the infrastructure first to manufacture them on a large scale.
This is not only worthwhile for future long-haul flights, but also for the existing fleet.
We have around 30,000 large jets in the air today.
Because the life cycle of an engine is around 30 years, many of them will continue to fly for a long time.
If you fill them up with synthetic fuels or hydrogen, they would be CO2-free in one fell swoop.
So there is no way around it if we want to be climate-neutral by 2050.
And that's exactly the goal our industry has set itself.
But for that we need political support.
The EU wants two percent synthetic fuel to be added to kerosene in aircraft by 2030.
It's a start, isn't it?
That is far too little!
The quota has to be high for it to be interesting to build synthetic fuel plants on a large scale.
It's the same with hydrogen.
Here, too, the infrastructure is largely lacking.
We need large amounts of green hydrogen, which is obtained from renewable energies, as quickly as possible.
Incidentally, it is also the basis for synthetic fuels.
But there are other hurdles on the way to the hydrogen aircraft.
That's right, the tanks and lines on board have to withstand a lot of pressure, for example.
These technical challenges must be tackled by the entire industry, and as an engine builder we can only support them.
We are also trying to make the engines more and more efficient, no matter what fuel they are powered by.
There are also other ways to quickly reduce consumption.
Which?
About a more intelligent flight control.
For example, further energy could be saved if airplanes flew like birds in a flock.
Germany and Europe could become pioneers in such measures, which is why industry and air traffic control are exchanging views with the federal government.
Speaking of the federal government, you also build and service engines for military aircraft.
Europe is to get a new military jet that Germany, France and Spain want to develop together.
How is the situation there?
We are glad that the next phase of the project was launched in December.
We will develop the jet engine together with Safran from France and ITP from Spain.
We assume that the project will keep MTU working for the next 60 years.
This is not only about development and construction, but later also about repair and maintenance.
A military aircraft usually has a significantly longer life cycle than a civil aircraft.
There are often national rivalries in such projects.
Airbus and Dassault have long been at odds with the fighter jet project.
Is that also the case with the engine builders?
Of course there is always discussion.
But we quickly agreed on an equal footing and that's a good thing.
You can only develop an aircraft like this so quickly and at this level together, no country can do it alone.
You need hundreds of developers and many billions in budget just for the engine.
When it comes to the engine, we will skip a complete generation compared to the Eurofighter in terms of performance, weight and efficiency.
Can't the project still fail?
I don't assume so.
The need for a modern military aircraft in a sovereign Europe is there.
And: A lot of money has already been invested.
I am optimistic that we will bring the project to an end - and that the jet will then also become an export hit.
Are you hiring new staff for the project?
Due to the high safety standards, the development will only take place in Germany.
That's why we're hiring around 300 developers at our Munich location over the next two years.
We want to make the Munich location fit for the future for the next 20 years.
We have invested a lot and are currently hiring.
MTU boss Lars Wagner
MTU is a Munich company.
However, you make two thirds of your turnover with maintenance and repairs – and that in many branches worldwide, for example in China or the USA.
What role does Munich still play?
Munich is our headquarters, half of our approximately 11,000 employees work here.
During Corona, we expanded all of our locations, whether in Germany, Poland or China.
We have also invested a lot here in Munich, for example in a new production hall, a test center, a new canteen, more automation and the future use of geothermal energy instead of gas as an energy source.
To do this, we will have two wells drilled to a depth of more than two kilometers.
We hired around 500 employees here in 2022 and, as I said, we are still looking for developers, among other things.
We want to make the Munich location fit for the future for the next 20 years.
Your predecessor Reiner Winkler announced in autumn that MTU will increase its sales by around 2.5 billion to eight billion and its profit to one billion by 2025.
But he set the bar pretty high for you, didn't he?
Reiner Winkler didn't set the bar high for me, rather we decided on these ambitious goals together as the Management Board team.
Can they be reached?
In any case, we have had a good record so far in terms of achieving goals.
In addition, our business is easy to calculate.
We sell the engines themselves largely at no profit.
They then come to us regularly for repairs for 30 years.
So we know pretty much exactly how much we're going to take and when.
That gives us some planning security.
Can't the global lack of material throw a spanner in the works?
We were also recently affected – mainly because some American partners laid off many of their employees during the crisis and were now desperately looking for new workers for production.
But there is a relaxation in sight for a year.
In any case, we don't have any personnel bottlenecks ourselves.
We didn't lay off a single employee during Corona, and we're very proud of that.
So the German model with short-time work and long-term contracts is an international model?
Definitely!
In the USA, "Hire and Fire" has been deeply rooted in the corporate culture for 100 years, and it's not going to change any time soon.
But we are doing very well with the German consistency.
Other companies in the industry are in a worse position.
We have kept all our employees and do not have to search desperately for new specialists.
Interview: Martin Prem and Andreas Hoess