After the knife attack on the train, Markus Lanz wants an "honest discussion" about migration on ZDF.
Green leader Nouripour collides with an integration expert.
Hamburg – Germany is shocked.
In a knife attack on a regional express from Kiel to Hamburg, an assassin injured several people - two people even died.
Just a few hours after the crime, Markus Lanz took up the topic in his ZDF talk show.
After all, many questions remain unanswered.
Also with the guests.
Markus Lanz: Knife attack on the train causes explosives between Nouripour and Mansour
The moderator Lanz set the framework right from the start: It is now "urgently necessary to work through the background".
After all, the train assassin had previously been noticed several times for sexual and violent crimes.
According to initial investigations, the perpetrator is a stateless Palestinian who came to Germany in 2014 and has received subsidiary protection since 2016.
Integration expert Ahmad Mansour intervenes: "We shouldn't wait until crimes have been committed to hold the debate," he says.
“In 2020 we had around 20,000 knife attacks with almost 100 deaths.
40 percent of the perpetrators have a migration background.
Mansour sees those responsible as having a duty to finally take a stand.
"That's a number that shows: We have a problem here."
These guests discussed with Markus Lanz
(Co-Chairman, Bündnis90/Die Grünen)
(journalist, Der Spiegel)
Journalist Martin Knobbe "notices that we hear very often about these knife attacks that there were mental problems".
Mansour knows the argument: "I wonder why we didn't talk about mental instability after Halle and Hanau.
There were also people who were mentally ill.
We rightly talked about ideology.
Why don't we do that when it comes to people with a migration background?” The integration expert sees the problems in the socialization and origin of the migrants.
"We have a problem with people who seek protection from us and sometimes despise this country." They are "ready to hurt other people or attack police officers.
All of that is up for debate."
Green leader Omid Nouripour wants to talk about the attack that afternoon.
And unfortunately there is the problem: "Tonight I don't know what the background is." Lanz tries to open the politician to the debate: "Well, Mr. Mansour is talking much more generally!" But Nouripour sticks to his line: " It's true that you have to look at the background very closely." For example, the following questions have to be clarified: "Was the person intoxicated with drugs?
Is he mentally stable?
Is he perhaps connected to a jihadist terrorist organization?
Did he plan all of this meticulously?” At least he doesn’t know all of that at the moment.
Mansour calls for consistent deportation after knife attack: problem when people “despise our rule of law”
Lanz is too imprecise: "How do we deal with it?" He asks the Greens again.
"Do we have to put up with all this out of democratic tolerance?" "No, no, no, no, no," Nouripour interjects and now wants to take the Illerkirchberg attack as an example.
But he gets muddled when it comes to the origin of the perpetrator, and Lanz takes the opportunity to retell the murder of the 14-year-old girl in detail.
The result was that Interior Minister Nancy Faeser (SPD) refused to deport the assassin because he was Afghan.
A repatriation is too dangerous for him: "Tell me where to deport him to.
Then it's about the sexual harassment on the Cologne Cathedral Square on New Year's Eve 2018. Mansour states that "people constantly despise our rule of law here.
As long as we convey the feeling that our rule of law is weak, we will have people who exploit that weakness.”
The Greens' repatriation offensive "a sham"?
Lanz criticizes Nouripour: "You have written a repatriation offensive in the coalition agreement.
In the first half of the year, not even two percent of the 300,000 people who had to leave the country were returned.
Where is the offensive?” Unfortunately, that is “a question of negotiating with the countries where the people have to go,” replies Nouripour.
Knobbe attacks him head-on: "Your offensive was a sham." It took a full year just to appoint the repatriation officer.
The "Spiegel" editor Martin Knobbe comments on "Markus Lanz" on the foreign and climate policy course of the Greens.
© Markus Hertrich/ZDF
After the knife attack on the train, Nouripour sees many deficits in the "experience of the rule of law"
Nouripour tries to direct the discussion to the keyword labor shortage, but in the end he has to admit: "I don't know the numbers." And he throws afterwards: "I don't want to dodge, I don't want to dodge at all." But that's exactly where he hits you Point at Mansour.
He countered: “You don’t create cohesion by refusing debate.
We are on the verge of splitting this society.
I hope that the democratic parties understand the responsibility they now have.”
Nouripour's answer: "Every year we get over 20 million overtime hours by the police." It is obvious "that this is at the expense of the experience of the rule of law".
You have to talk about solutions - "and not just hit us over the head with buzzwords".
But this requires staff.
"They are not here!
There aren't enough of them!” he moans.
Lanz is noticeably outraged and breaks it down: "At some point it's just a phrase."
Ukraine war: tank delivery "doesn't make much sense militarily"
ZDF journalist Elmar Theveßen also noted "a bit of outrage".
Not on integration, but on the question of supplying tanks to Ukraine.
This is the second topic of the show.
With the Americans, namely, Thevessen, because it took Germany so long to approve the delivery of German battle tanks to the Ukrainian front.
However, this is not decisive for the war, because "militarily it doesn't make much sense".
But what's next, Lanz wants to know.
“Today Zelenskyj suddenly demands long-range missiles and airplanes.
How dangerous can that be?” “The USA will draw a line for fighter jets,” speculates Theveßen.
Because allowing Ukraine to advance far into Russian territory and then “just rely on Zelenskyy’s word not to do it” will certainly not be enough for the USA.
And what is Germany doing?
Nouripour does not want to rule out other heavy weapons, and Lanz resignedly states: "They don't say: No way." Nouripour curtly: "I have nothing to rule out today.
I don't say 'no way' to anything.”
Conclusion of the talk with Markus Lanz:.
Nouroipour remained unanswered and only asked new questions himself.
That didn't really bring the discussion any further.
Only Ahmad Mansour gave yesterday's talk show refreshing, new facets.
Clear and to the point.