China's peace plan, Putin's propaganda show and constantly new weapons: On the anniversary of the Ukraine war, Markus Lanz's group plowed through the topics.
Hamburg – The Russian war of aggression in Ukraine has been raging for a year.
In the ZDF talk show by Markus Lanz, the guests want to take stock of the war on Thursday evening.
But this is not that easy.
An end to the conflict is hardly in sight.
China has presented a peace plan.
But in Russia there is little forgiving.
In a propaganda show in a stadium, Putin kept unleashing new threats towards the West.
Does that look like someone who just gives up?
Markus Lanz: On the anniversary of the Ukraine war, Putin teased the West with his speech
Vladimir Putin's speech to the world was "absurd".
That is the unanimous opinion of the group on Thursday evening.
The Russian head of state had previously denounced the decay of values in the West in his speech: The destruction of the family, cultural and national identity, perversion and abuse of children, including pedophilia - these are all "strings of lies", says moderator Markus Lanz at the beginning .
Zeit
journalist Michael Thumann agrees: "They just make things up to demonize us," he says.
"They hear what they ordered themselves." Putin only uses the smartphone as a telephone.
"A lot will be presented to him.
Of course, he is presented with as few disturbing things as possible.” The “great danger” is “that you end up lying to yourself”.
Putin "confuses himself", as happened with the issue of Ukraine.
These guests discussed with Markus Lanz:
Adrian Geiges
(Author)
Margarete Klein
(political scientist)
Norbert Röttgen
(Member of the Bundestag, CDU)
Michael Thumann
(journalist, "Die Zeit")
Which brings us to the main topic of the evening: the war in Ukraine.
Lanz diagnoses a certain unworldliness in Putin: "When you're at the top of a dictatorship, you'll never find out the truth again." Author Geiges agrees and draws parallels to the West: People who have a different opinion would think twice whether they say it "because they know what consequences it can have for you".
The Ukraine war was therefore completely out of control.
What was initially described by Russia as a "special military operation" led to partial mobilization and finally to a mass exodus from the country.
Young men in Russia and Ukraine tried to flee only to avoid being drafted into the military.
It was "a declaration of war on one's own people," says Thumann.
The war as a whole was "a major attack on the European order".
Norbert Röttgen: For Russia, the Nord Stream pipeline was “a weapon against Ukraine”
The losses are immense.
Political scientist Margarete Klein counted around 180,000 Russian soldiers killed.
In Ukraine there are talks of almost 200,000 victims.
According to Klein, 20,000 to 30,000 civilians were killed.
But how do you end this war?
The peace manifesto of the left-wing politician Sahra Wagenknecht and the feminist Alice Schwarzer is definitely the wrong way, the group agrees.
Because the conditions for peace have not yet been created.
First you have to keep fighting.
CDU man Norbert Röttgen is satisfied that the Nord Stream 2 pipelines were destroyed, because after all they were “a weapon against Ukraine” themselves.
The background would have to be clarified - that of the construction of the pipelines.
Thumann is calling for a “German truth commission”, which would also be necessary to process the corona measures.
"How?" asks Lanz, "an investigative committee against the chancellor?" Röttgen explains: "These were structures that, if we don't name them, continue to have an effect.
If there is a consequence of this greatest failure in post-war history, then we have to work through it.”
End of the Ukraine war?
China's peace plan only for 'useful idiots'
The group is also unanimous in their assessment of China.
She turns out negative.
Above all, the new Chinese peace initiative is not well received.
"I'm annoyed that the term is already associated with success for the Chinese," admits Röttgen.
The Chinese peace plan has “nothing to do with peace.
That's the opposite.” The Chinese would bet on “that there are useful idiots who say, 'Look, that's an initiative'”.
Nobody in the group fears that the Chinese could actively intervene in the war.
"Everything speaks against China supplying weapons," says Röttgen.
And Klein confirms: "I don't see that large weapon systems will be delivered." Author Geiges also agrees and has identified other goals behind them anyway: "It's now about making China the leading country in the world," he says.
That is the only reason why the country is getting involved in the conflict.
"That's where this so-called big peace initiative fits in," said Geiges.
Lanz doesn't like the term: it's better to "just say initiative" instead of a peace initiative.
That is “the right framing”.
A Year of Ukraine War: The Origins of the Conflict with Russia
A Year of Ukraine War: The Origins of the Conflict with Russia
Lanz wants to know if the West's sanctions against Russia are working.
Thumann doubts the current reports of a strong Russian economy and an increased ruble exchange rate.
He says: "You can see that the Russian state budget has gone massively into the red." However, he admits that everything that Russia needs somehow finds its way into the country.
The black market is flourishing in Georgia and Kazakhstan, for example, and everything is available on the gray market, just as it was before the sanctions.
Lanz believes that the sanctions will surely succeed at some point.
The effect is not felt in the short term, "but definitely in the long term - one hundred percent".
Conclusion of the talk with Markus Lanz
Markus Lanz is on the spot.
If all guests are in complete agreement, no debate will take place.
What is particularly unfortunate is that current developments were not discussed at all.
For example, Putin's announcement that he would suspend the "New Start" disarmament treaty with the USA and possibly start a new arms race.
(Michael Goermann)