Ramón Tamames, candidate for the motion of no confidence against Pedro Sánchez: "I do not defend Vox"

Ramón Tamames (Madrid, 89 years old) has been almost everything in life: leader of the PCE, political prisoner, deputy of the Constituent Parliament, economist, professor, commentator.

Among his pending subjects, winning the Princess of Asturias Award for Social Sciences.

But instead of writing the acceptance speech for the award that he dreamed of, he has spent weeks engaged in a much tougher one: his intervention as a candidate for the motion of no confidence against Pedro Sánchez.

His sponsor is Vox, a party at the ideological antipodes of the one with which he fought against the dictatorship.

But he assures that he does not play along with the ultras, from whose "extreme" positions he does not hesitate to distance himself.

Ask.

Why have you agreed to lead the motion of no confidence?

Answer.

It is a unique opportunity to speak to the 47 and a half million Spaniards that cannot be given in any other circumstance.

P.

Abascal says that it did not take them much to convince him.

R.

It is not a problem to convince me.

It was to see if the idea I had was compatible with what they thought at Vox.

And that was not conviction, but a factual convergence.

Q.

The one who did not convince you was Núñez Feijóo…

R.

He was eating at home with some friends.

There were even those who spontaneously raised the issue of the motion of censure that was already beginning to be discussed... [Feijóo] said it here, that he did not like it, it seemed extemporaneous and then he said that if he were my father [actually, his son said] I would I would recommend that you do not.

And I have said that he is a good putative father.

Q.

Then she called him.

A.

We spoke on the phone when what was already a murmur turned into a serious conversation about the possibility of making the motion with myself.

We had two conversations and at the end he said goodbye wishing me the best personally.

Ramón Tamames, pictured at his home in Madrid.Claudio Álvarez

Q.

Are you in favor of outlawing separatist parties?

R.

I am not in favor of outlawing anything.

Crimes yes, in the Penal Code.

But parties, why are they going to be made illegal?

What they have to respect is Parliament, to function in the elections.

That they preach independence... they will know why they preach an impossible thing.

Q.

You will go to Congress endorsed by a party that wants to outlaw several groups that sit there: PNV, Bildu, Esquerra...

R.

I am not going to ask for the illegalization of anyone.

What am I going to say to those of Vox?: "Do not ask for the illegalization of anyone, it is better to have them inside than outside."

Q.

You belonged to a party that was illegal, there [on a door] you have the photo of the day the PCE was legalized.

R.

Raising the flag.

Q.

That was proof that Spain was a democracy in which everyone could fit.

A.

Sure!

Q.

Have you read Vox's motion of no confidence that presents you as a candidate?

A.

Yes.

Q.

You will have seen that climate change is denied there.

R.

There are many people who deny it.

Q.

But you say that it is the great challenge of humanity.

R.

Do you know why I think I should be there, in that motion?

80% of Vox affiliates are in favor of fighting climate change.

Q.

Its leaders, no.

R.

They have not found out yet.

I will try to let them know too, in the motion of censure.

Ramón Tamames, during the interview.Claudio Álvarez

Q.

Do you believe that Pedro Sánchez is a criminal?

R.

Man, it doesn't seem like it, no.

P.

Vox called the president a criminal for his management of the pandemic and in December filed a complaint for conspiracy for the rebellion, which the Supreme Court has dismissed.

You complain about the polarization of Spanish politics, but it seems that Vox has some responsibility.

R.

In the first legislatures, Congress was something else.

There was a friendlier relationship, the issues were agreed upon, there were never any insults.

But, look, I'm not going to teach a class on dialectic and good speech, it would seem pretentious to me.

Q.

You have said that populism is proposing simple solutions to complex problems.

Is asking that Navy ships go to stop the boats is populism?

R.

Vox has asked me to lead a motion of no confidence as an independent and that is what I am going to do.

I am not going to criticize Vox by saying if they use the word assassin or intend to send the Navy.

I had not read it, but it seems to me that the Navy has functions that do not consist of chasing small boats and, if they are found, they will have to raise them.

No one would deny that.

The immigration problem is so difficult that each country does what they want and nobody can solve it.

One of the proposals that Spain can make in its European presidency is to regulate migration at once.

Do you know how many people the Pope has said are buried in the Mediterranean?

26,000.

It's outrageous, we have to put an end to it.

Q.

But it can't end...

R.

… With the Navy, I already know.

I will tell Mr. Abascal: "Look, Santiago, I think you should withdraw the words of the Navy..." [he reflects for a moment].

Someone may think that you have not taken the address well, because you would have to ask Abascal those questions.

Don't criticize the party, what's it called? Vox, because I know it and I know it has extremes, like other parties.

I am not here to defend Vox.

It is the only party that has proposed to me...

Q.

And if Bildu had proposed it?

R.

It is impossible, among other things, because it does not have 10% of the deputies...

Q.

And if ERC had also done it?

R.

I do not enter into proposals that will not reach me in centuries...

Q.

Wednesday is Women's Day.

Vox wants to impose its own morality on all of society by suppressing the right to abortion.

A.

They are dialectical [proposals].

Here no more is imposed than what can be imposed by the force of votes.

And they don't have the votes.

Q.

But they can have them.

R.

If they work well and connect with society... but they would have to vote for them.

Q.

If they have votes, they will prohibit abortion, euthanasia, homosexual marriage.

R.

But the first hypothesis is insurmountable.

Q.

You are giving them a hand.

R.

I do not lend a hand, I lend a hand to public opinion, who knows the state of the country according to my knowledge and experience, not what Vox tells me, because I have not given them an audience in that regard.

[Changes third party] I have been the founder of EL PAÍS, director of its yearbook and member of the Board of Directors for 12 years...

Q.

Do you know that if you had asked Vox, this interview would not have been done?

R.

Why would I ask?

Q.

It does well.

Did you know that Vox has banned numerous media outlets from its press conferences, including EL PAÍS?

A.

I didn't know that and I will recommend that you stop banning them.

Q.

And aren't you worried about favoring a party that vetoes the media?

R.

I insist: I do not have to defend Vox, nobody has asked me to.

They have asked me to explain from my point of view how Spain is doing, to speak freely.

And that's what I stick to.

Q.

And they, aren't they going to benefit?

R.

They have their risks.

Ramón Tamames, on the left, shows his joy after hearing the news of the legalization of the Communist Party in 1977.Ricardo Martín

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