Interview with former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami: 'For Netanyahu, power is his sexual aroma'

In Israel, thousands of people demonstrate against a reform of the Supreme Court, which may be controlled by the deputies and the Executive that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his far-right government exercise.

The initiative caused such a crisis that a week ago the Israeli prime minister had to "pause" because of "

."

But this reform has opened a "Pandora's box" between this extreme right-wing, religious government coalition and liberal, enlightened Israel, which maintains the Orthodox who do not work, do not make war and demographically increase the country with an average of seven children

.

The ultra-right religious Israel and the settlers against a liberal Israel, which wants another country, other values ​​and other policies.

Former foreign minister Shlomo Ben Ami is one of the most prestigious Israeli intellectuals.

This politician, diplomat and writer of Moroccan origin immigrated to Israel in 1955 and

for the Labor Party.

He was the first Israeli ambassador to Spain between 1987 and 2001 and is a graduate of Tel Aviv University and Oxford University's St. Antony College.

Former foreign minister Shlomo Ben Ami is one of the most prestigious Israeli intellectuals.

Is Benjamin Netanyahu's pause in the crisis real or an excuse for a new onslaught?

Will he fire Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, who denounced his reform and warned of security problems, or will he leave him, having fired him?

Will the Likud split?

Has Israel been divided between the liberals and the religious, who live at its expense?

Shlomo Ben Ami spoke with

.

These are his responses to one of the

identity crises facing Israel since its creation.

Protests without political leadership

-How can this crisis end due to this judicial reform that Netanyahu sought?

Could there be a crisis within the Netanyahu government within the party?

-I don't know if it's possible, because I, frankly, see it as very difficult to reach an agreement between the parties.

This is assuming that politicians genuinely represent the meaning, the feeling of the protest, the collective attitude of the protests in the streets.

These protests are not led by politicians.

It is something that comes from below.

It is not an imposition or a mobilization from above.

So it's hard to know what will emerge from these negotiations between the politicians, right?

In my opinion, it will be impossible to reach an agreement.

Squaring the circle is totally impossible because the core of the initiative of the Benjamin Netanyahu government is to achieve control of the Supreme Court by politicians.

For Netanyahu, power is his sexual scent.

There is no way this man is resigning."

If these negotiations that are taking place at the President's residence are not enough, if an agreement is not reached in which the Government's control over the Supreme Court is guaranteed, then there can be no government.

The government can't.

The Likud is going to be divided among the most radical, which is the Minister of Justice, who is the biggest promoter of this reform.

If there is no control of the Supreme Court, this man will resign.

This decision may cause an internal crisis.

That's what I imagine.

-Do you mean that Netanyahu is going to resign?

And what can happen in that sense?

-No no no.

For Netanyahu, power is the sexual scent of him.

There is no way this man is resigning.

The one who can resign is the Minister of Justice.

That can lead to a government crisis.

And it is possible that the most radical wing of the government will disassociate or withdraw from the government.

And that can lead to the formation of a new coalition in the same Parliament or new elections.

An apartheid system and a dictatorship

-Those who march in Israel denounce that if this reform is applied, Israel will go to dictatorship.

Do you consider that democracy is in danger today in Israel?

-We have here two two factors that make Israeli democracy something quite compromised, frankly.

One is the occupation of the Palestinian territories, because today there is really no border between Israel itself and the territories.

It is a whole Judeo-Arab space, where the Jewish part is becoming more and more a minority in demographic terms and controls the Arab majority in the Palestinian part.

The Government controls Parliament, which already exists and now wants to control the judiciary as well.

Well, nothing, I think that's what a dictatorship is, yes or no?"

Well, it is a system that must be recognized as an apartheid system.

And that is not the proper breeding ground for a solid democracy.

That is an element that has nothing to do with judicial reform.

But then, if you add this attempt by a government to appoint judges, in their defense, the government often says: “Oh, look, in other places it is also politicians who appoint judges.

For example, in the United States.

But what they forget to mention or prefer to ignore is the fact that in the United States there are two houses and in the United States there is a Constitution.

-And in Israel is there only one?

-Israel does not have two chambers in which one of the two can moderate the extremism of the other and even more so.

Here Parliament is not really an entity that controls government policies, because the Executive always has a majority.

At the moment that the Executive has a majority, as Parliament as such does not exist as an independent entity.

Therefore, instead of there being three powers, the Executive, the Legislative and the Judiciary, what will exist is a single power.

The Government controls Parliament, which already exists and now wants to control the judiciary as well.

Well, nothing, I think that's what a dictatorship is, yes or no?

The social elite on the street

- Now, those who mainly oppose the reform were military pilots, secret agents, reservists and the Defense Minister, who said it was a threat to national security.

Because?

-First, what you say is true.

But when we talk about the pilots, the intelligence services, etc., what we are saying is that this is really a class struggle.

Because?

Because these military elements that you just mentioned are elements of the social elite.

Shlomo Ben Ami, former Israeli Foreign Minister.

Photo: archive

The pilots here are half divine, fighter pilots are gods.

The intelligence services are the most sophisticated units of youth, cybersecurity officers and so on.

They are the reflection of the protest in the street.

It is a middle class and upper middle class protest.

-Because?

Here the left is not defined in economic terms as, let's say in the Marxist socialist vision.

Here the left is the bourgeoisie and the gentry and the well educated, and the academics and the intellectuals. Who votes for Netanyahu?

Well, minorities, in quotes, not necessarily demographic minorities, but minorities, cultural minorities.

For example, the Orthodox, the Sephardic Orthodox, the Ashkenazi Orthodox, the settlers.

The social periphery is the extreme right.

In Europe, too, the proletariat never wanted to be saved by the Marxists.

In the end he wants to be saved by the extreme right.

The center of the debate is in this clash of cultures between liberal Israel and those who want to change the way of life in the country."

That's what we're seeing here historically.

From a historical perspective, the truly revolutionary class, with all due respect to my family's origins, was never the proletariat.

It was the middle class.

Marx himself says so in the Communist Manifesto.

In 200 years of domination of the bourgeoisie - writes Marx in a communist manifesto - the bourgeoisie has created the goods and more than all previous history.

And who were those of Lenin's Politburo?

They were all bourgeois intellectuals.

Coup for the status quo

-How should military behavior be analyzed?

-What I want to say is that the behavior of the military hierarchy cannot be defined, let's say.

It's some kind of coup, if you like.

But it really isn't, because what coups d'état are usually trying to do is change the situation.

Here is a coup in favor of the status quo.

They don't move things.

Leave things as they are.

Hey?

They don't control.

Now there is no control by politicians over the judiciary.

Well leave it like that.

And it is also a reflection of the liberal street society.

That is what happens here.

It has exploded.

-And Netanyahu?

-Nobody trusts him.

Frankly, nobody here trusts that this suspension is something definitive.

Has this man had any military experience?

And in schools or military academies, they teach you that sometimes you have to withdraw to counterattack, right?

And that's what he's doing.

He gives her strength.

It's a tactical retreat.

It is that suspension to later see how I look for my life to carry out this reform.

Netanyahu is a survivor.

Politically, he is the only thing that really occupies him.

"If the army does not divide, there is no civil war," says Ben Ami.

- Are you worried?

-Look, normally the statesmen form the coalitions they need to carry out their strategic vision.

Netanyahu does the opposite.

He defines his strategy according to the coalition that he is able to form.

That has always been so.

When he could form, when he could create left-wing coalitions, he even went so far as to propose to (Palestinian) President Abbas in 2014 the withdrawal from the 1967 borders. That is no secret.

The scene of civil war

-Some and others speak of a scenario of civil war.

Even he says “I take a break because the country is going to civil war”.

The civil war would be between whom?

-If you want to go into detail, the religious parties and the settlers against the rest of this liberal Israel, which wants to be free and wants to be democratic.

But civil war is a bit of an exaggeration.

Civil wars do not occur when society divides.

They occur when the army is divided.

If the army is not divided, there is no civil war.

We have seen it in Spain in 1936. We have seen it in the United States, in the American Civil War.

And here the army is not going to split.

The army, the upper layers have protested, but they are not going to take to the streets to fight against the other half of the army.

It is totally implausible.

What there is is a -what the Germans call-

: a war, a clash of cultures.

I mean, between the Orthodox and the settlers, on the one hand, and liberal Israel.

That can lead to ongoing political crises, including clashes between civilians.

But frankly, I don't think this is the scene of a two-party war by the Israeli army.

That is something that one can imagine.

It will not exist.

I don't believe it.

But we are in a situation where these are very difficult things for liberal Israel to swallow.

Here the army is not going to be divided.

The army, the upper layers have protested, but they are not going to take to the streets to fight against the other half of the army.

It's totally unbelievable."

The fact that we have here about 1 million Orthodox, whose men do not work and live on subsidies.

It is an incredible situation.

Imagine 1 million gentlemen who live on subsidies, which come from the taxes of liberal Israel.

Now that they are in government, the Orthodox want to suppress their way of life, the way of life of those who finance them.

-How will it end?

-When you ask me how this is going to end or if there is going to be an agreement on judicial reform.

The important thing is that judicial reform is no longer the center of the debate.

That's what I just told you.

The center of the debate is in this clash of cultures between liberal Israel and those who want to change the way of life in the country.

For example, now they have passed a law, that if you go to visit a sick person in the hospital during the Easter holidays, you cannot carry what Hamed is in your pocket or in your hand.

Hamed is the type of food that is forbidden to eat on Passover and that the overwhelming majority of Israelis do not support, not the people here.

Well, yes, there are those who respect it and there are those who don't, but those who are financed by the liberal majority cannot impose their way of life on the liberal majority.

In other words, judicial reform is already important, but it is no longer the only reason for this protest.

Pandora's box

-Did a full crack open?

-The judicial reform of the Government has opened a Pandora's box and has opened all the demons, which have been suppressed over the years.

But now liberal Israel has opened up this whole question and wants to know.

Let's see where we go.

Are we going to let the religious orthodox continue to impose their way of life on us?

Are we going to leave the settlers creating these escalations in the occupied territories, with a finance minister publicly declaring that he wants to set fire to and burn an entire Palestinian village?

- Do you think we are facing a scenario in which you must call elections and the government collapses due to internal fights?

It's possible?

No, no, it cannot be ruled out.

The latest polls give the current government a defeat if there are elections.

Therefore, I believe that it will not try to survive until there are more favorable conditions for its coalition.

But at the moment, I don't think it's interesting.

But, in the end, the dissolution or disintegration of the government is not impossible.

Yeah.

Paris, correspondent

ap

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