"Markus Lanz" takes a closer look at German foreign policy in relation to China and Russia.
In focus: The attitude of the AfD.
Hamburg – The Chinese military has just completed a multi-day maneuver near Taiwan.
Markus Lanz wants to know who the associated threat is primarily aimed at.
Roderich Kiesewetter initially provides an unspecific answer.
"China showed muscles," says the CDU politician and then becomes more specific.
Kiesewetter names two reasons for the maneuver that was held.
On the one hand, it was a direct reaction to Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen's visit to the USA.
In addition, it coincides with the departure of Emmanuel Macron and Ursula von der Leyen.
According to Kiesewetter, the Chinese government is thus making it clear to the Europeans that it will not back away from its One China policy.
"Markus Lanz" - these were his guests on April 12th
Roderich Kiesewetter
, politician (CDU)
Rüdiger Lucassen
, politician (AfD)
ZDF Talk Markus Lanz: AfD politician Lucassen on China
AfD politician Rüdiger Lucassen also sees the Chinese military exercises as a signal to the USA and Europe and describes the conflict between China and Taiwan as "highly dangerous".
The former Bundeswehr colonel also agrees with the controversial statements made by Macron, who said in China that Europe should not allow itself to be demoted to “the US vassal” in the China conflict.
Kiesewetter, on the other hand, only has criticism for the words of the French President because he sees the USA as a strong ally when it comes to security on our continent.
In Kiesewetter's eyes, Macron wants to take on a leading role in Europe, which he does not hold.
He would lack the support of the other nations for that.
When Lanz asked him how the federal government should react, the military expert demanded: "Germany must position itself." The focus should continue to be on cooperation with the USA.
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Roderich Kiesewetter (CDU) in conversation with Rüdiger Lucassen (AfD) on "Markus Lanz".
© Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF
AfD politician Lucassen criticizes "Markus Lanz" arms deliveries to Ukraine
Lucassen doesn't think much of the previous speaker's suggestion.
The AfD politician says that Europe – as Donald Trump has already called for – must act more independently of the USA.
Kiesewetter refers to the Bundeswehr's foreign missions, which were approved without consulting the Americans.
When it comes to the Bundeswehr, Lucassen immediately interrupts Kiesewetter.
"They are looting the Bundeswehr right now," he claims, referring to the arms deliveries to Ukraine.
When asked several times, Lucassen replies that he did not deliver combat equipment because of the great risk of escalation and instead pushed negotiations.
The member of the Bundestag sees the security of our country endangered because of the weapons tax.
"We have to think of our own interests," warns Lucassen, who, despite the determination of the Ukrainians, does not believe that European weapons could stop Kremlin boss Vladimir Putin.
Kiesewetter justifies the arms deliveries with Russia's intention to extend the war to other countries.
In his opinion, we could soon be a “war target”.
The surrender of weapons would then be even less comprehensible for Lucassen because it would additionally weaken our Bundeswehr.
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Markus Lanz and his guests Roderich Kiesewetter (CDU) and Rüdiger Lucassen, AfD, right).
© Screenshot ZDF
AfD politician Lucassen in the ZDF talk Markus Lanz: Putin crossed the "red line".
Rüdiger Lucassen has recently attracted attention for his criticism of Russia, which did not really fit his party's concept.
With “Markus Lanz”, on the other hand, the 71-year-old acts a little more cautiously, for example he no longer names war criminals, although according to the moderator he has already done so publicly.
“I never said he was a war criminal,” Lucassen dismisses this insinuation.
He still sees Russia as a perpetrator in the Ukraine war, even if he points to the difficult history.
Kiesewetter acknowledged this last subordinate clause with a shake of the head.
Lanz next asks Lucassen why his party has so much sympathy for Putin despite the war.
The person addressed can only explain this with the East German connection to Russia, which has probably not yet been abandoned.
Lucassen himself emphasizes that he cannot understand this "Putin friendliness" because a "red line" was crossed during the aggressive war.
AfD politician Lucassen accuses party members of "treason" in the Lanz Talk
Many people also describe the appearances of some AfD politicians in Russian propaganda programs as crossing borders.
Steffen Kotre is shown in a clip, who clearly takes a stand for the attackers in the Ukraine conflict on Russian state television.
"I have no understanding for that," admits Lucassen and explains that Kotre's statements are causing discussions within the party.
"How divided is your party?" Kiesewetter then taunts the AfD representative.
His party is by no means divided, but pluralistic, Lucassen counters.
Kiesewetter insists and asks if it would be okay to tolerate war crimes.
"It's not fair to impute that to me," Lucassen protests.
Another clip shows Eugen Schmidt - also an AfD member - who claims in a Russian propaganda program that democracy in Germany is being suppressed.
"It's something like treason," Lucassen criticized his party comrades for this claim.
Lanz then asked Lucassen why he was still loyal to his party after these appearances.
Lucassen, who by his own admission no longer exchanges a word with Schmidt, emphasizes that the majority of the party does not think like Schmidt or Kotre.
"Markus Lanz" - The conclusion of the show
Dealing with China and Russia remains an ongoing issue in German politics because the parties prefer different approaches.
The example of the AfD made it clear how deep the rifts are even within the parliamentary groups.
(Kevin Richau)
