Anne Will's ARD talk is about the controversial nuclear phase-out in Germany.
It has been a fact since Saturday – but there has been heavy criticism in the various countries.
Berlin - switch off - yes or no?
The phasing out of nuclear power continues to cause discussions in Germany.
Even with Anne Will's talk show this Sunday evening, you can't avoid the topic.
The exit was always "consensus," recalls the Prime Minister of Saxony-Anhalt, Reiner Haseloff, right at the beginning of the show.
But: Only the "timing" is disputed.
With regard to "supply security" and "price development", Haseloff would have advocated waiting until after the coming winter to phase out.
Nuclear phase-out: In the case of Anne Will, the shutdown of nuclear power plants heats up people's minds
In the night before the political talk was broadcast, the last three nuclear power plants still in operation in Germany were taken off the grid after 60 years.
Anne Will dares to take a critical look back: "Germany is switching off - is the nuclear phase-out the right decision?" is the critical title of the program.
The Bavarian Prime Minister Markus Söder (CSU) had described the exit as an “energy policy ghost trip”.
There was also criticism from politicians from the ranks of the CDU and the FDP, which is part of the government.
Anne Will digs deeper: has the last word on nuclear energy really been said?
"Anne Will" - these guests discussed with:
Johannes Vogel
(FDP) - Deputy Federal Chairman
Katrin Göring-Eckardt
(Bündnis 90/Die Grünen) - Vice President of the Bundestag
Reiner Haseloff
(CDU) - Prime Minister in Saxony-Anhalt
Harald Lesch -
astrophysicist, science journalist
Dorothea Siems -
Chief Economist at
Die Welt
Reiner Haseloff wants to keep things flat: "We're well advised to de-emotionalize the discussion," he warns.
Bundestag Vice President Katrin Göring-Eckardt (Greens) sits in the round to defend the government course.
She recalls that it was the government under CDU Chancellor Angela Merkel that had "decided for a long time" to phase out nuclear power and enumerates the reasons again: an accident in a nuclear power plant due to natural disasters or - as can be observed in Ukraine - due to Attacks always result in serious environmental disasters.
Zoff about nuclear power plants: Göring-Eckardt defends Habeck's nuclear power support in Ukraine
Anne Will does not leave the last point uncommented.
Robert Habeck, she ties his party colleague to the nose, had recently said during his trip to Ukraine in relation to the nuclear reactors there, some of which had come under heavy Russian fire, that it was okay for Ukraine to stick to nuclear power, “as long as things run safely, they are built”.
Göring-Eckardt tries to explain: According to the Green Party politician, they wanted to refrain from interfering in Ukrainian affairs.
As Prime Minister of a federal state that mines lignite, Reiner Haseloff makes no secret of the fact that he finds the phase-out of nuclear power risky at this point in time.
"You only get off when you've gotten on somewhere else," he complains.
There is currently a lack of storage media in the hundreds of terawatts that would do justice to the German economy, it needs "every reserve to survive the next few years," says a visibly touched Haseloff.
Together with the FDP politician Johannes Vogel, who is sitting in the group, Haseloff therefore calls for waiting before the nuclear power plants are dismantled, also so that they can be switched on again if necessary.
Vogel agrees: "I respect that there is no majority in the German Bundestag for a further extension," said the FDP man.
But not making the piles immediately unusable, I think is a matter of common sense,” says Vogel.
Haseloff: Renewable energy in Germany is currently only possible with lignite
Welt
journalist Dorothea Siems reminds us that nuclear power plants are superior to coal-fired power plants in terms of climate neutrality
.
According to the journalist, Germany is currently as "dirty as only Poland or the Czech Republic", which are "traditionally very coal-heavy".
Haseloff confirms: "Never before has so much lignite electricity been generated and so much CO₂ generated as at present".
If you look at electricity production in Germany, the minister continued, half of it consists of coal production.
And: Renewable energy is currently only possible because the grid is stable thanks to lignite.
In a clip, Anne Will recalls Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who announced the federal government's noble plans for climate-neutral energy production: by 2030, the share of renewable energies in the German electricity grid is to have increased from the current 46 to 80 percent.
Haseloff considers this "unrealistic".
Instead of four to five wind turbines, as announced, the current figure is 1.5 - the main culprit is the lengthy approval process.
Science journalist Harald Lesch is also skeptical.
According to the astrophysicist, many decisions can be made, but in the end it is the people who have to implement them.
There is a lack of companies, staff and specialists who “build the wind turbines and bring photovoltaics to the roofs”.
Energy expert: Phasing out nuclear power will lead to higher CO₂ emissions in the next 15 years
Nevertheless, the self-confessed opponent of nuclear power, Lesch, considers the exit from nuclear power - a "dead end technology" - to be indispensable.
Lesch: "It should make us think that there isn't one reinsurance company in the world that insures nuclear power plants." Lesch is convinced: "Hands off!
Never again!” But even he cannot name an alternative that is already working.
However, there are flaws: one could have opted for wind energy back in the 1950s, but would have opted for nuclear technology and base load-capable energy production that supplies energy around the clock.
The energy expert is certain that in the future we will have to adjust to natural rhythms again.
In order to achieve this, Germany will have “higher CO₂ emissions for ten to 15 years” than targeted.
"Bitter," comments Anne Will.
The change "must succeed!", says Vogel.
"We are an industrialized country" and therefore it must work to get the energy supply "safe, affordable and climate-neutral".
For this you now “turn all levers”.
"But does it work?" Will asks.
Vogel can only repeat it: "We have to!" And Göring-Eckardt can only add: "I want to make it!"
Conclusion of the "Anne Will" talk
In retrospect, having a discussion about something that has already been accomplished can sometimes seem tedious.
The exchanged arguments were mostly known.
The future seemed planless.
Unfortunately, a representative of the SPD is missing from the group, which would have been obvious, since Chancellor Olaf Scholz had made use of the directive competence in the nuclear power plant issue.
(
Verena Schulemann)