Markus Söder (l, CSU) and Michael Kretschmer (CDU) talk to each other before a cabinet meeting. © Bodo Schackow/dpa
Saxony's Prime Minister Michael Kretschmer has a few points of view of his own - in the Merkur interview he talks about asylum, AfD and sanctions.
Munich - Sharp criticism of migration policy, doubts about the Russia sanctions: Saxony's Prime Minister Michael Kretschmer (CDU) occasionally offends even in his own party. We met with the 48-year-old in Munich on Sunday for an in-depth interview. He presents proposals on asylum policy, talks about the AfD and about the supply of fighter jets for Ukraine's self-defense.
Münchner Merkur: They often go on the offensive towards demonstrators and angry citizens, let themselves be yelled at, argued. What is being shouted at you at the moment?
Michael Kretschmer: To a large extent, this heating law is currently at stake – because it is poor in terms of craftsmanship and the attitude behind it is that the state wants to educate people. From above, par ordre du mufti. This creates enormous frustration. In addition, there is the war, which causes people a lot of worries, as well as the economic consequences, which have long since arrived at home.
One of the major points of contention is also migration. Did the asylum summit the other day buy time for the chancellor or wasting time?
We are running out of time. The Minister-Presidents agree that these figures overwhelm the municipalities – not only in terms of accommodation, but also in schools, kindergartens and integration. We have been in open talks with the Chancellor for more than half a year. But the SPD does not manage to prevail against the Greens in the federal government. What is needed is very consistent action at the external border. Instead, Ms. Baerbock drives around and single-handedly makes admission programs without regard for European and national security interests. It doesn't work that way. In their ideology, the Greens no longer have any respect for the majority opinion in Germany. And Olaf Scholz forgets that, as Vice-Chancellor in 2018, he agreed to an upper limit on immigration. What was right then cannot be wrong today.
Kretschmer wants to reduce the number of refugees – and the "benefits" for asylum seekers
They demand: Down the number of arrivals. How is this supposed to work?
There is no question that we must help those who are directly threatened. But that can't be 300,000, 400,000 a year. We urgently need to talk about benefits for asylum seekers and compare them in Europe. Obviously, this is the central point why all asylum seekers across Europe want to come to us. If we want to have a functioning EU and open internal borders, we need to reduce our services and bring them into line with a European value.
Specifically: Where to cut?
I want to tackle this in a very calm way. For example, with a commission together with representatives from all areas. This is not a political battleground, but experts who develop binding proposals in three to six months. Incidentally, this would also be the better way to go in energy policy.
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My Area
Do you really trust the concept of external border protection in the EU?
I was with Frontex in Warsaw and I have a lot of confidence in them. The Turkey-Greece border is safe, the Belarus-Poland border was safe. We can do that, but we also have to reduce the central pull factor, our social benefits. We must put an end to our inability to return people who are not entitled to asylum to their home countries. In addition, there is strong work outside the EU with effective development aid that creates life prospects for the people in these countries.
Kretschmer sees a lack of openness behind the AfD's strengthening – and cites Bavaria as a positive example
In East Germany, they are experiencing an AfD that has become the strongest force. Does that scare you?
I view this development with great concern. Our inability to address and clarify problems in this country leads to the strength of this AfD. Unfortunately, the Greens have played a huge part in this with their autocratic traffic light policy.
How do you make an AfD smaller again?
By tackling and solving the big and important issues in our country. This is what citizens expect from a government. It needs to be made clearer that there are different approaches. Then you can ask them. You can see that well in Bavaria.
About the person
Michael Kretschmer (48) has been governing the state of Saxony since the end of 2017, currently in an unusual black-red-green coalition - out of necessity to keep the AfD and the Left out of government. The office information electronics technician from Görlitz, who later worked his way up to a degree in industrial engineering on his second chance education, is also one of the five deputy chiefs of the CDU in the federal government.
Politically, he is considered a plain texter, sometimes deviating from the position of the Union on the right. Nationwide, however, he also made headlines because he has been calmly facing all debates with angry citizens, corona deniers and demonstrators in general for years - even when they pursue him right up to his apartment building, where he lives with his wife and two sons, and insult him savagely. He wants to explain what he does, says Kretschmer. The next state election in Saxony will take place in the fall of 2024, and Kretschmer is fighting for the AfD, as in every eastern German state, with extremely high ratings.
Is that one of the reasons why you are leaving Russia/Ukraine policy? To tell your electorate what they want?
We have our own opinion on the sanctions, on the question of how to end this war. The economic consequences of the sanctions for ourselves, which I have been warning about for a year, have occurred exactly like this – energy prices, huge inflation. I also want Ukraine not to lose this war, to counter the aggression. But that also means that we, as the West, must show economic strength. And by completely disconnecting Russia from everything, even cutting off contacts with civil society and academia, we are depriving ourselves of our options.
Completely weaken Russia? "This is an attitude from the 19th century?"
What makes you think that Putin would not immediately invade the next country?
Where does this lead? That it is necessary to completely weaken Russia politically, economically and militarily? This is an attitude from the 19th century that has led to all the conflicts of the 20th century – with hereditary enmities, injuries, propaganda. You can live with an insecure neighbor Russia if you stand strong. The wrongly designed sanctions and our wrong energy policy are costing us strength.
You also oppose the delivery of fighter jets?
Let's take a look at what the Germans have been told in the last twelve months that we never do: become a party to the war, supply weapons, offensive weapons, tanks. One thing by one, we are on an inclined plane. While refraining from diplomatic initiatives, we are leaving possible negotiations to the Chinese to stop this war. None of this inspires confidence in politics.
Interview: Christian Deutschländer and Marcus Mäckler
