Carsten Linnemann is responsible for the CDU's basic program. The word "tax increase" seems to be forbidden. Lanz senses this and torments his guest.
Hamburg - Fresh from the CDU retreat on Lake Como in Italy and with a defeat in the boccia against CDU leader Friedrich Merz in the luggage, CDU Vice-President Carsten Linnemann made himself comfortable in the armchair next to Markus Lanz on Tuesday evening. However, the top politician did not have much time to sit back, because the moderator took him hard in the pliers.
The aim of the trip to the small village of Cadenabbia was the creation of a new CDU basic program, because the old one is 16 years old. This was worked on vigorously, "until half past one at night," as Linnemann says. This conference and the results were now to be reported on camera in Hamburg. Presumably, however, Linnemann himself did not expect such a cold start to the show, because the otherwise very eloquent and quick-witted politician briefly lost his thoughts in the discussion with Markus Lanz. Lanz shouts over: "CDU and tax increase, whose idea was that?" Linnemann pretended to be surprised by the term and that it came out of nowhere: "What does tax increase mean?" Finally, the 45-year-old says: "If we make the tax reform, we will have to completely abolish the solos. The so-called middle class belly must be abolished."
"Markus Lanz" - These guests will join the discussion on May 23rd:
- Carsten Linnemann (CDU) – Deputy Federal Chairman of the CDU
- Ulrike Herrmann - Journalist at the "taz"
- Jens Südekum - Economist and Professor of International Economics
- Rüdiger von Fritsch - Ex-Diplomat
Solos? Middle-class belly? Lanz is irritated and asks: "I just asked about tax increases, but instead you spoke of relief without even mentioning the word tax increase." Linnemann has probably already taken a wrong turn, but is now trying to turn around despite oncoming traffic: "Because the word tax increase suggests that I want to burden." But the presenter doesn't let up because he notices that his guest is stumbling: "Where do you want to raise taxes?" Linnemann is annoyed: "Not at all." However, this contradicts everything that was reported from the retreat. "So the CDU is against tax increases?" says Lanz.
After the most recent closed-door meeting, Carsten Linnemann, deputy CDU leader and head of the policy programme commission, spoke to "Markus Lanz" about his party's ideas on industrial, tax and labour market policy. © Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF
Linnemann is now trying a new approach: "I want a major tax reform in which almost everyone is relieved, which is why I want to increase the tax rate." For Lanz, this means that taxes should be increased. "So you want to raise taxes after all? Why don't you just say it? No one here understands what you're declaring," the presenter snaps at his guest.
"Markus Lanz": The word "tax increase" seems to be taboo
It seems that there is an internal code that prevents Linnemann from using the word "tax increase" with all his might. It seems like a parlor game in which words are to be explained to the exclusion of certain terms. But hardly anyone here finds it funny. And so Linnemann cheerfully continues: "We are talking about a fundamental tax reform."
The journalist Ulrike Herrmann then redeems the viewers. And presumably Linnemann himself feels it is a redemption that Herrmann relieves him of the task of explaining what the CDU is up to. "It's about a tax relief of 50 billion euros. This relief is due to the fact that the solos are to be abolished. It's paid for by the top five percent of the population," says the taz editor succinctly. Herrmann explains that high earners would benefit from such a tax reform.
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Südekum at "Markus Lanz": "The calculation will not work out"
With this, Ulrike Herrmann has kissed the CDU deputy awake. "That's not true at all," Linnemann reacts angrily. He counters with a sentence that must be allowed to take effect: "If you relieve at the bottom, you also relieve at the top." Economics professor Jens Südekum disagrees with this view: "The calculation will not work out that everyone will be relieved. A real reform would be to burden at the top in order to then have funds to relieve the burden at the bottom and in the middle." Linnemann now speaks in general terms of having gone into politics "to bring the country forward". Lanz can't resist a final taunt and jokes: "It sounds as if the CDU has discovered its social streak."
Looking ahead to the 2025 Bundestag election year, Linnemann declares that he would like to see an "honest election campaign". To this he says: "You are not elected for uncomfortable truths." Such inconvenient truths as, for example, tax increases? You can answer the question for yourself. "I've never seen an election campaign where people have explained how they want to pay for all the promises they make during the election campaign." Linnemann now promises to change that. And he starts with the following proposal: "If this country grows by one or two percent or three percent every year, we will get tax revenue and we can finance it all." If-conditions as a basis for counter-financing? And "if" it doesn't work out, i.e. the economy doesn't grow? Lanz spared his guest the question.
Markus Lanz – The conclusion of the show
Whatever Linnemann has ridden to believe that he can go on Lanz's show and talk about tax increases without even uttering that word, it has gone wrong. For the people on TV, however, it was a show with entertainment value. One could even feel sorry for the CDU vice-president in view of Lanz's questions. For his part, however, Lanz has done exactly what is expected of him as a journalist. For Linnemann, this meant an uncomfortable evening. (Christoph Heuser)