Markus Lanz argues about the criminal law-violating actions of the climate activists "Last Generation". Is this still climate protection or does it belong behind bars?
Hamburg - The political talk show "Markus Lanz" on ZDF already lasts 45 minutes when the presenter takes the CDU politician Thorsten Frei to his chest. The topic is the "Building Energy Act" - the draft from the Ministry of Economics headed by Robert Habeck, which had caused a lot of fuss in recent weeks. But Lanz sees the bogeyman on the other side. The attempt to achieve a climate turnaround is being "politically incited" by the CDU, he accuses the CDU politician. Frei counters: "We are not upset about Habeck, but we are upset about his policies."
"Markus Lanz" - these guests discussed with:
- Thorsten Frei (CDU) - FirstParliamentary Speaker of the CDU/CSU parliamentary group in the Bundestag
- Hajo Schumacher - Journalist, podcaster and publicist
- Luisa Neubauer (Bündnis 90/Die Grünen) - Student, climate activist at "Fridays for Future"
- Liv von Boetticher - freelance TV journalist for RTL, among others
Neubauer also criticizes Frei directly: "Your response from your party was an unbearable, months-long campaign that had dealt with the whole issue as if Robert Habeck were breaking into the basement and dismantling the heating and disregarding the dignity of the people at the same time!" Journalist Hajo Schumacher, who runs a podcast with his family, adds: "Jens Spahn said in our podcast that it is the task of the conservatives to slow down progress in such a way that even the very last come along!"
Thorsten Frei and Luisa Neubauer as guests of Markus Lanz © Cornelia Lehmann/ZDF
Neubauer criticizes the Habeck scolding of the Union in "Markus Lanz": Intolerable campaign!
And Lanz continues to drill into the draft law: "What's in it?" he asks with a stern look at Frei and follows up with further questions in a staccato rhythm: "What do they say in essence?" To whom does the law apply? When Frei starts a longer execution, Lanz becomes grumpy: "Don't distract!" he orders. Frei blinks his eyes nervously. And climate activist Luisa Neubauer once again expresses what Lanz wanted to achieve with his questions: The opposition's reaction to the traffic light bill, which must drive forward the necessary, climate-friendly conversion in the building sector, is criticized - a challenging task.
And the presenter is not yet finished with his guest, who sits next to his left. When it comes to climate policy, the Union's idea is simply to price CO₂, he initiates his talk interrogation - and thus let the market regulate the transition to renewable energies. Frei nods, but his body language, in which he holds his knee tightly, reveals: He doesn't want anything good.
Lanz digs deep into the wound with his finger: "How expensive will it be to heat with gas and oil, do you know that?" Frei tries to circumvent the question, lists possibilities for building renovations, Neubauer frowns and Lanz is indignant: "That's thin ice now!", but then leans confidentially over to Frei: "Tell me: Heating with oil and gas is becoming more expensive?" When Frei is confirmed, Lanz asks: "Where will this price be in ten years, in five years - or in two years?"
Markus Lanz takes Union politician Thorsten Frei to his chest: Argumentative thin ice!
Frei squirms: "I can't tell you that!" he claims and says, "that doesn't matter at all!" However, he then admits that price increases can be expected as a result of certificate trading. When Frei does not want to name a price despite Lanz's insistent follow-up, the presenter himself gives the answer: By 2026, the CO₂ price will rise from the current 30 euros to a price between 55 and 65 euros. Lanz: "This is simply a doubling compared to now".
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Frei admits that, even with the Union, climate protection will be neither "cheap nor cheap". According to Frei, the point is "that we have to reduce CO₂" and that will "of course cost money" and he calls for "incentives and funding instruments" to continue. Frei criticises the planned reduction in subsidies for biomass and bioenergy, and that these technologies are no longer competitive.
The lawyer makes no friends in the group when he partially defends the comments of his Union colleagues on the self-proclaimed climate activists "Last Generation". Lanz quotes: "Climate RAF", "Energy Stasi". Frei first of all: "In principle, I have nothing against pointed statements" that point to the "increasing radicalization" of climate glue. When Lanz accuses him of "trivialization", Frei then objects: "I wouldn't say 'energy Stasi' ...".
Journalist reports on "Lanz" about the mysterious disappearance of ex-Tengelmann boss Haub
The second part of the show is about the mysterious disappearance of one of Germany's richest businessmen: The entrepreneur and extreme athlete Karl-Erivan Haub disappeared without a trace in the ski resort of Zermatt in 2018. The former head of the Tengelmann Group, which also owned brands such as Kik and Obi, is said to have gone into hiding in Russia. A spectacular search operation was unsuccessful. Investigative journalist Liv von Boetticher published a recent book on the case. She is certain that a skiing accident can be ruled out.
Instead, investigations would have shown clear traces of the businessman to Moscow and St. Petersburg. Evaluations of Haub's mobile phones had shown that the entrepreneur had an hour-long conversation with a Russian woman in St. Petersburg on the evening before his disappearance. In the weeks before, too, he allegedly held talks exclusively with Russia. Most recently, the German with US citizenship is said to have been seen in several places in Moscow.
Conclusion of the "Markus Lanz" talk
The guests do not bring any surprise, but repeat the well-known arguments, which results in little movement in the discussion, it ends mainly in mutual reproaches. However, the respective deficits are also clearly visible: an overwhelmed policy that has to manage the transformation of the industrialized economy into a circular economy, aggressive climate protests that, in their goal of putting pressure on those responsible, ultimately only cause social unrest and tie up the necessary forces. The ominous disappearance of the Tengelmann boss and his involvement in Russia are also merely touched upon. (Verena Schulemann)